I really don't feel like typing a huge list of why I think that the warning system isn't the best, so I'll sum it up.
For repeat offenders, warnings are a joke, meaningless. The crimes they keep doing are not enough for a ban, or even a kick so they will never be punished. I think that we need a better system for repeat offenders. I have a few systems in mind, I just don't know how realistic they are. I am sure more intelligent, and clever users could create a functioning warning/kick/ban system.
HOWEVER
Keep in mind that this is a minecraft server (A great one at that) and not a country. It's not going to be perfect, nor do I expect it to be. I believe that the staff are doing their best, considering the circumstances.

 

I have an idea! We send them to jail! They can't chat or move or do anything! They must appeal and be online for x amount of time! This would work! Kick them if they don't move for x amount of time! This would solve our problem!

 

Ehhh.

 

I'm pretty sure it would work. They would server their time and who wants to sit in jail? No one!

 

But. But. You contradicted yourself.
They can't move, and if they don't move we kick them.
Also, jail is a whole new plugin to configure and who wants to be a mod that just watches the jail...

 

Did I contradict myself? I guess I did. Well, they live in a cell and no mod has to watch them. I would assume the plugin would do that work.

 

I do like the jail idea/fine idea. 1 it would get more money out of the economy. 2 it would make people realise "wow this was not worth the crimes". An idea for the jail is that it is at spawn, publicly. Times being 1-10 hours of online time? If you go afk and don't move for more then 5 minutes you get kicked.

 

Does a server reset erase jail data?
Is the plugin open source?
Can the server handle another plugin that saves jail info such as this one?
Where would it go at spawn?
What stops people from just treating it as a tempban and idling at their computers while at school?

Not going against the idea, just want to clear up some possible issues.

 

idk man im just a lad with dreams :c

 

Made my Spanish class.


LOL.

 

I'll look for a plug-in and then go make a suggestion.

 

Nor did I, you propose muting players, fining them, and removing their donation features. All of which will not help. Muting players is for lower offenses like cursing and spamming, which makes this perfectly relevant for more minor offenses. Your fining/donation feature removal is for high tiered offenses, which I addressed if you read through my wall of text.

What problem? I really don't know what problem you're referring to. And "No one has time for anything new ever.", do I even have to say how wrong that is?

Second, what I said is perfectly true. The only way for these fines and property loss to be initiated is through Andrew, and like I said, possibly Revan. Are you suggesting that Andrew has time to fine every player who commits major scams, is banned multiple times for cursing, spamming, advertising, etc.? Because ALL of those are serious offenses, and we have tons of players who've committed them. That's an overwhelming amount of people to fine, Andrew simply would not be able to do that all.

I completely understand; I have no compassion for rule-breakers either, especially repeat offenders. However, I do have compassion for the players that get scammed by the rule-breaker. If the rule-breaker gives up on paying a debt, the scammed player gets nothing back. Sorry, but a major part of the Ban Appeal system is that you have to make amends for what you did wrong. If we make it extremely difficult for these people to do that, it will affect more than just the scammer, but everyone who suffered through his actions.

You misunderstand me, muting disciplines players just as much as it drives them away. The difference between a kick and a mute is that the player still may talk after being kicked; they may still be involved in the server's chat. A new player may decide that he'd rather try a different minecraft server than wait 5 or more minutes to ask a question, or however long you propose the mute time should be. A kick serves the same purpose as a mute; it tells the player that what he's doing completely violates the server rules, and if he doesn't knock it off more harsh punishment will ensue.

To be honest, I fail to see any logic in this argument, or for that matter the post as a whole. You do not address my points, simply say I am "derailing the discussion", which is completely false. What I have said is valid, and unless you can actually tell me why it's wrong instead of using images to take away from the seriousness of my points, this will remain so. You Dork have derailed the argument through this post. I will dumb down my argument here, so it's easier to read and easier to counter.

1. Fining requires too much time, there's too many repeat offenders and large scams out there that Andrew does not have time to fine all of these people.
2. Adding a negative balance/fine will make debts even harder to pay, making it so the scammed player is less likely to be paid back.
3. Muting drives players away by taking a vital part of the server away from them. The job can be done just as well through a kick.
4. Taking away Supporter features is similar to fines; it makes debts harder to pay. If Supporter features were removed on top of a large fine, debts would be insane to pay back. If you knew you couldn't pay back a debt, it would either force you away or make you scam again because you have nothing to lose.
5. Taking away Supporter features is ineffective in the fact that is imbalanced. Certain players have more features than others, while some may have none at all. That means punishments will not be consistent and therefore unfair, which would lead to many more complaints about the way punishments are handled.

I'll reiterate it; dramatic changes aren't needed. Staff simply needs to be more strict with offenses that carry over day by day. SnD said it perfectly.

This needs to worked on, muting, fines, and removal of supporter features does not.

 

One thing I do see is this.

"X" user does something wrong (i.e. Cursing, Slandering Another User, Etc). "X" logs off for the night and/or gets kicked for multiple warning. When "X" logs on the nest day, he repeats this, and what is actually done about it? In my eyes, nothing.

I think the biggest thing with the system is the repeat offenders. Yes, many people break the same rule over and over and over again, and appeal, and come back. In this case, I feel some sort of system of "3-strikes you're out," meaning if you break the same rules and get banned 3 times for the same thing, you get permabanned.

Now, I know many of you will say "what if it's out of their control?" (i.e. scamming due to IRL conditions). Thing is. we don't really know if the user is telling the truth, so who knows, they may just lie their way out of every ban. But...if a user is banned twice, and know that if they get banned one more time, they won't be rejoining us. don't you think it will sink in a little?

This could take affect for those who break the simple rules like cursing in chat, trolling, or slandering, do we really need these people on the server? I've seen users before say that certain people make them feel uncomfortable on the server, just because of the lack of enforcement on these "petty" crimes. I know if I was an 8-year old, and was being slandered or picked on every day, I wouldn't want to play on the server. And as we all know, a majority of our community, whether active in chat/forums or not, are the younger children, as Minecraft is generally seen as a game for kids.

Cursing, ehh. That's not as bad as slandering. I know every now and then I want to just lash out in chat and curse up a storm, but I think of the younger kids on the server. However, there are many people who do this just to make the victim get upset. These people are also known as "trolls."

What's the fun of hosting a Minecraft server full of trolls? Again, these people we don't need.

Now, keep in mind, I'm not saying permaban every Joe Schmoe repeat offender, but do so to the ones who obviously do it to be a troll.

Comment/criticize this as you will, this is simply MY opinion. If you feel there's something I need to elaborate on more, feel free to tell me and I will do so to the best of my ability.

 

I read that as "How the Efficiency do you ...", dork1877.

 

honestly i think a couple of rules need to be changed and also the rules need to have a harsher punishment it should be a 3 strike system 1. verbal warning or pm 2. the user should then be kicked. 3 the user should then be temp banned to take some time off or if it is a serious offense then a ban should be issued

 

Ehem. Here you are ladies and gentleman, our solution. Of course ECC can create or modify it to suit it's needs :)​

http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/simplewarnings/​

Your Welcome​

 

On the current warning system:
ECC's current warning system can get the job done, but it's far from perfect. Some argue our system is great, some argue it's flawed. Perhaps our system's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Our system is forgiving, but this forgiveness makes it easy to abuse by those who wish to do so. Any player who's been around long enough knows there's certain rules they can "get away" with breaking so long as they don't do it again. Some know exactly how many times they can do this before further punishment is received.

Our system need not be harsher... it need only identify those who are attempting to abuse it and give those players further punishment at staff discretion.

On ideas suggested here:
I've seen some ideas suggested to counter the problem.
Fines - Fines would be good for certain offenses such as repeated warnings for language or spamming. This has two major drawbacks. One being the subjectivity of fines being given, another the feeling of richer players knowing that they have enough money to not be affected by the fine, or newer players simply not having money whatsoever.
Jail - Jailing sounds good on paper but would be very bad in practice. I would honestly rather be banned, I simply don't have the patience for that. "Well, that's the point of the deterrent", you say? Are we deterring people from committing the crime or joining the server? I wouldn't stick around on a server where I'd be jailed for things for extended (1+ hours) periods of time.
Loss of Supporter Features - I'm not supporting a server where I know I could basically be fined real money for breaking the rules. This may deter people with feature already from committing crimes, but will almost certainly result in a decrease in the purchase of features.
Muting - So much of ECC requires chat, you might as well just (temp)ban someone. This would just keep someone online while being punished.

What do I suggest?
I suggest instead before a proper ban requiring an appeal, but after a warning or two, a player be given a tempban. I do see this happen from time to time, but not on a regular basis. This would force players to wait and maybe reform their actions. This could fairly easily be integrated in with the current system, and I'd be interested to think if it did.

Falconaire
I just want to point out, your points about "scammers" are mostly irrelevant to the line of discussion, as scammers aren't warned for scamming, they are banned for doing so. If they accumulate excessive chat/etiquette warnings while repaying a scamming debt, I personally think that it might be better if the player were not to return, because those are offenses against both of the two things EcoCityCraft holds dear, money and people. If you clearly show no respect to either, you do not belong here.

 

While this won't change the way we do warnings, this could possibly stop the need for swearing warnings altogether.
http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/anti_swear/
That plugin censors all swears and is completely configurable. This could help take some of the duties off of mods and make some younger players not feel uncomfortable about the language on the server.

 

I'd rather not have a robot take place of staff.