I told you I can give you the money yes. At the time I forgot about furys loan and your loan.

I have $3, 000, 000 in my balance. I have money but it is not your money. It is other investors money and my own. Your money is currently loaned out. Contract states I do not have to pay out unless both:
- 2 months has passed (done)
- Your money is not loaned out (it is)

You'll have to wait patiently to get it back as you agreed in contract. Im at work currently but irs absurd that id pay out money to you now while you owe me over half a million. Counter productive. Ive been reasonable in my efforts.

 

You're exactly right and I won't deny this in any way. I worry for those who copy my investments (other banks) because of this reason and also not having enough capital in case things go wrong. It can be abused heavily to get an interest-free loan yes. Would I do such a thing? No.

Can you prove that I am not abusing it? No. However this complaint is on ldw116 not myself. I will release the PM details shortly for those in the general public to see. My spreadsheets can be changed/editted by the following users:

@Obblebobble @265 (eekelmo) @THCOOL @FuryFudge And nobody else, the rest can view. I trust all of these players. @ldw116 was investor number 9 on the list, invested 23rd December 2015, unlock date 23rd February 2015 (Passed), total of $235,000.



You can see this above. Every single transaction is tracked on this spreadsheet along with every single loan that uses investor money (Now all loans including personal are tracked as of 5 days ago). Every single loan fullstop is tracked on the VoE Banking thread (Tinyurl.com/eccvault). I knew it was only time until someone was unhappy with the processes and I completely respect that.

I just do not understand why this investment cannot be sacrificed to cancel a loan. I pay you, then you pay me, because this loan is due (as of days and days ago). That's counter-productive as I said. Anyhow, it's all tracked there, I can even show you edit history if you'd like. Money doesn't have a unique identifier here so which money belongs to which investor is a very gray area, yes. However here's my logic:

- A person will invest some money
- This money is recorded (X has invested $X with Obblebobble) and then marked on the sheet with the full total available
- When I loan money I will either loan my own personal money (Choose not to use investors cash) or I will use an investors ECD and say "Funded by X ($X)". Let me find the FuryFudge loan funded by Ldw116.




You can see above that FuryFudge was loaned $800,000 with $1,200,000 due 29th January which is very very late. $736,000 was funded by investors. 221k i8ablu, 80k blaze, 200k tomkc, and 235k ldw116.

If I were to modify these details on the spreadsheet they would not match up with my forum post. There is no edit history on this post and I was not a moderator on the December 25th (So no silent edits). As of 25th December that post has not been touched. The 4 users mentioned are still awaiting interest. There are cases where I can void a loan, you withdraw your money and you don't earn interest. But I am not forced to do so and I am not willing in this situation until the loan is repaid OR furyfudge is banned for loan scamming me. It is sad I have to go to these efforts, I understand I am trusted but yes this whole system could be abused.

That is the risk of investing. If you don't want to be "away from your money" for an extended period of time then do not take out a loan. You can also see here that this loan is pending:


TomKC was paid $0 interest, it's just the way the spreadsheet works. I allowed him to withdraw for something important but he lost the potential $40,000 profit. This loan interest is pending for all 3 other users. Meaning Ldw, Blaze and i8ablu are all unable to withdraw no matter what lock-date until this loan is paid off entirely.




I'm trying to get as detailed as possible here because I am not intending to "scam" anyone, nor rip anyone off. But if you owe me money and have investment, I'm going to hang onto this investment as long as possible until you're debt free. Here's an insight to my money and what belongs where:

As of writing I have $3,024,055.12 ECD on my balance. $0 in my forum balance.


Out of this, the amount that technically isn't "Mine" and belongs to investors is $1,152,500:

$10,487,000 total invested with $1,152,500 currently available. That leaves $1,871,555.12 left over of personal money.

"But this can be @ldw116's money" Sure it could be anyone's money, because money doesn't have a unique ID. It's like taking ownership of a drop of water and throwing it into an ocean. How can we measure that? We say "I own 1 litre of water" and then if you want to take the water, we grab 1 litre and give you it. It may not be the same water you had at first, but it's value is the same.

So how can we identify money and where it goes? Well spreadsheets, which yes are controlled by me. By me putting your money on the spreadsheet as a contribution to a loan means I have to pay you interest (40%). I am losing 40% of my own profit by doing this. If I wanted I could say I used personal money for all of these loans and never used your money. Then it would be a bit suspicious when I have a balance of $0 but holding $1,000,000 investor cash (for example).

What says that Ldw116's money has been used for the loan is that I have previously recorded this and essentially promised @ldw116 $47,000 ECD assuming the loan is paid in full ($1,200,000). This was established before Ldw even borrowed money from me. I had no financial gain to this what-so-ever. Like I said, it's not traceable who's money goes where, but I make it traceable. By recording what portions of money goes to who and who will be receiving money.

When a bank has say... $100,000,000 and you withdraw $100 from an ATM. There isn't $100 waiting in the ATM just for you specifically, it could be anyone's $100. But the papers say that you own $100 so you have the right to this $100. Ldw has the right to this $235,000 but I have the right to just over $500,000.

According to our contract I have no choice but to refund your money (pay it out) once FuryFudge has repaid his loan completely. And according to our loan contract you have no choice but to pay me my loan. I'll be holding onto your investment until FuryFudge has paid his loan, and have already worked with Nicit on a more secure contract regarding investments being used to pay off loans.

I expect my money as @Dccciz has said. Otherwise (without mini-modding) I believe this will be a breach of contract and most likely bannable.

Thankyou for reading.

(Also I wish to notify you that once your loan is repaid, with late fees and your investment is available to withdraw (and has been withdrawn) or the balance has hit $0 then the Vault of ECC wishes to abnegate your right to borrow money or invest money with us.)

 

Above are the inbox messages that are relevant. I said "Sure you can withdraw.". Technically speaking he COULD withdraw, meaning he's capable assuming I approve it. At the time he could withdraw and I was willing to let him withdraw without any profit (no interest from loaning). That was 10 days ago though, times have changed and this loan is late. I didn't agree to anything in the PM hence why I am willing to share it.


However this is far off-topic. I want to be able to use the investment to negate some debt, it doesn't seem like it'll be paid anytime soon.

 

I have no control over other businesses doing this. To be frank that's not my responsibility, they should come up with original ideas. Anyhow yeah I get what you are saying. I cannot prove if it's someones money. Perhaps I should re-word my contracts to say "You invest $100,000 and after 2 months with all the other conditions being met you will get $100,000 back. Not your initial investment. You will receive 40% of interest from loans that I say your investment contributes to based on a relevant percentage (10% contribute = 40% of the 10% interest)."

But that's basically the same. The ONLY real thing that is enforceable is me paying back your investment which is guaranteed, all my loans are tracked. Sure they may be put on the spreadsheet by me, but if you want to be serious about it then people can go dive logs and find the monetary transactions in game. There is no way to prove that I used @ldw116's money for the loan, but if I were speaking like this then although all of these other $10,000,000 investments have been used towards loans I can say "Sorry I used personal funds, nobody gets profit". Legally speaking (gray area) I can. Of course I wouldn't and most people know that but yes I understand you're point.

This is well off-topic. I can see potential flaws in the system yes, but I personally do not take advantage of these flaws. Investors get their cash back, the profit is based on trusting me. I can't guarantee anything but I have paid out over $1,000,000 ECD in profits, the contract is more of a trust thing. You have to trust me if you want to invest. I do believe this is getting off-topic though so by all means send me a forum PM, or even create a discussion thread in general discussion (if you'd like the public to see, I'm fine with that) and we can discuss/argue in a peaceful manner there :)

You have good points. It is practically impossible to 100% prove. Anyway have work today.



@Dccciz This loan is still unpaid. Seems to be no effort to repay either.

 

When you were "in game" I was at work or asleep. I can't be on ECC 24/7. But yes you could if I felt like it, because I wasn't forced by contract at the time (loans still out). It slipped my mind hence why I retracted it.

 

Please PM me or start a conversation in general discussion. I respect you and your decisions to discuss this, I have nothing against you but I'm not going to keep discussing this on a complaint against another user.

This complaint has NOTHING to do with the investment and I shouldn't have argued it this far. Tl;dr @ldw116 owes me $520,000 or so and this complaint is regarding that. Nothing else, it's overdue, was meant to be paid last night and it was not. I'm assuming according to what @Dccciz says, this should result in a ban. Not telling anyone what to do, but I have interpreted it as so.

Heck after all this I'd rather the ban follows through and lose 520k than getting my money back.... Can't believe this has gone so far.

 

Pizza said both rules were stated in contract (money currently loaned out) so my point is still valid.



Also, has been 24 hours since dccciz asked for a response. User should be banned as no proof of payment given.