[User Complaint] @Ldw116

Mission001 · Mar 13, 2016

Obble might have filed a complaint on Fury, But its a staff complaint so we wont see it

Zedoker · Mar 13, 2016

Mission001 said: ↑

Obble might have filed a complaint on Fury, But its a staff complaint so we wont see it

Click to expand...

Surely some action would have been warrented.

RyanBlocks2 · Mar 13, 2016

Well, I suppose I may as well throw in my two cents.

The way I see it a few things are true.

1. Ldw owes money for the loan to obblebobble

2. Obblebobble must pay back the money invested in VoE to ldw. There is no proof it is loaned to Fury. Now, assuming the spreadsheet is enforced Fury has a loan out. I get that giving an extension to a friend is nice, but as an investment business you can't tie up people's money without making them money. As such ldw needs to be paid back. It's not fun paying back money to someone only to never see it again but that's in contract.

3. Late fees. I think the 1 week late fees of 70k is a fair addition to the price owed. ldw clearly want it to be 0 in late fees which is silly to me considering he would owe a ton more if staff hadn't come to reduce that amount. I think this is what happens when you start calling late fees "predatory" on a case by case basis.

4. I don't think this was in any way some grand conspiracy to scam ldw. Some of the accusations I've seen in this thread (like fury intentionally approving bad contracts) are just ridiculous. The amount of nastiness in this thread is really disappointing.

Zedoker · Mar 13, 2016

DrowningInPizza said: ↑

@ldw116 both of those rules were in fact stated in your investment contract.
Unless anyone has relevant information to post, I am going to ask that you stop with the back and forth while we sort this out.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

I will be taking the liberty of using this as my defense for reporting a more appropriate response. What I am going to say is relevant in all ways, as it is pretty much an essential part of this case, and would probably help with the case. I edited out the parts that were "aggressive"

I am asking that a staff member not associated in anyway with this complaint be the deciding factor if this comment should be deleted, and even then, it could have been edited. This is relevant.

@Obblebobble
So, basically ldw owes you a certain amount. I get that, loan scamming happens, this is a rightful complaint.
However, we dive in.
@ldw116 requested his loan back on 3/2, as stated by your screenshots, but isnt getting them back. Why?
@FuryFudge has "his" money.

VOE Main Page said:
Current Loans Out (Obblebobble)
- FuryFudge - $800,000 with $1,200,000 payback - Due 29th January 2016
Click to expand...

After looking through your spreadsheet, it says that @FuryFudge received the loan from various users, including ldw on 12/25.
It was due 1/29, as demonstrated by the highlight section on the following spreadsheet.

Seeing how this loan is now late... 44 DAYS, im pretty sure late fees don't cover that (seeing how I dont see an extension, or even the fact that I got a 14 day late fee thing.)
@FuryFudge is currently loan scamming if he has not paid back.
This leads to my point.
Seeing how ldw's money was used on this, we can see how this leads to what we have here today.
Ldw is owed his 235,000 with the interest if this loan was paid on time, or fury deserves a ban, and even then ldw is still promised his money, as clearly stated by your contract and your entire system.

Youre trying to pass off the fact that a loan, that is just ridiculously late, warrents ldw not getting his money? I'm sorry but this is the definition of a scam.
There can be 2 ways that this goes.
1. Staff can find that your spreadsheet is not usable as evidence, my argument goes away, but so does yours, as I havent seen any evidence of fury's loan outside of your spreadsheet
2. Staff can find that your spreadsheet is usable, and therefore my point is valid.
Either way, you've seemingly screwed yourself with your own spreadsheet, and you have screwed over @ldw116 by letting @FuryFudge take his time to pay back his loan (44 days up to this post to be exact).

Apologies for tagging, but I really feel that the Server Admins, @ClarinetPhoenix and @Evanescence_ should really be handling this complex issue, and hopefully I have cleared up some of the points that have been attempted to be made.

Dccciz · Mar 13, 2016

We're not posting on this anymore. Enough.

ldw116 · Mar 13, 2016

Look this has gone on for waaaaay to long so lets make it simple.

Obble needs to pay me 235k asap
I will get banned for not paying this loan.
I will appeal at a later date and appeal it.

If I am banned before obble pays me obble needs to get banned too as he is in breach of contract at this point. Even if he isn't in breach of the original, he made a new agreement when he said he would pay me.

AND FOR THE RECORD, @FuryFudge WAS NOT A PART OF VOE WHEN HE APPROVED MY INVESTMENT

Obblebobble · Mar 14, 2016

Clause 4 - Common Sense and Bending the Rules

While this is a gaming environment, EcoCityCraft is also a very large community. As such, we expect that all players use their common sense. Be a good sport and a friendly community member.

Common sense extends to not bending the rules. Bending the rules constitutes as very severe trolling, and is not tolerated in any form.

Encouraging others to break the rules is not using your common sense.

Interrupting or stealing items from server events is not using your common sense.

Finding ways around the rules is punishable at administration’s discretion, from warnings all the way up to bans. Please see EcoCityCraft's General Disclaimer for more information.

If you feel like a rule has a loophole or a way that it could be used to be trolly, we encourage use of our suggestions forum or contacting the administration directly in order to take a look at the rules that may need to be changed.

You expect me to pay you while you owe me money. Does this not violate the common sense rule? Anyway time to reply to everyone's comments.

I get back from work and do not want to see this. With 30 out of 33 alerts regarding this thread and ratings regarding complaints:
Please no. Should've been locked but kept in complaints due to all these issues arising. Seriously PM me if you have issues (Goes to everyone), everyone is slandering without proper evidence or comments from staff. Okay not everyone, but many people.

If I were to repay the investment now I'd be technically breaking my investment contract as the money is still loaned out and should not be repaid.

Ladyvamptress said: ↑

I'm a bit confused Obble. If you are keeping his $235k of investment money to use towards the debt he owes, then wouldn't that be considered a payment? Well at least in my eyes it would. I think if you want this member banned, you should give him back his investment and let him appeal with a new schedule to pay you back on. It's either that or keep the money and come up with some new terms for the new amount owned in here. It's not fair to keep his money and then he still get banned when technically you've been paid something, willingly or not.

Also wanna point out how shady it looks that FuryFudge approves a contract that shouldn't have been approved and is also the reason ldw didn't get his money back when he asked.
Click to expand...

This investment:
1. Was deposited before the loan
2. Is a separate entity to the loan
3. Does not count as any payment to pay "off" the loan
4. Will not be used to deduct from the loan at all as of now. It will simply be claimed if deemed never paid to myself (No proof of sent payment), or claimed if Ldw116 is banned for more than 2 months at a time.
5. Will be repaid if the proof of paying the investment has been sent AND the loan has been repaid from FuryFudge. This is separate to the $520,000 owed to myself.
6. Will be repaid before the 520k is repaid to me assuming Number #5 has been met.

"If this user is banned you should give him back his investment and let him appeal with a new schedule to pay you back on."
That makes no sense. I'm not trying to be rude here but why would I give him money, to get him banned, to get him to repay me later.

Btw. FuryFudge was not involved in Vault of ECC before this contract was approved. Nor was he loaned the money at this time.

ajp79 said: ↑

All this fancy writing equates to one simple truth...

Obble set forth a contract specifying the details of the investment and it was agreed upon. The real issue here is a valuable lesson.. if you dont know what your doing and/or understand the contract then dont hand money over to anyone. More then half of the players do not have the mental capacity to understand this process... hell im 37 and my head hurts from reading through this.

Now for the real fun... why in the heck is fury approving this contract if they are involved in this whole mess to begin with.?? As lady said it is somewhat sketchy. They approve this contract and then take a loan out on the exact funds from this player?

Why is this not a focal point in all of this.. If I were obble I would return the money asap and move on... Why are we even allowing this anyway?? What happened to staff not being responsible for loans etc? It is just too much and too complicated for it to be managed properly.

Its too much hassle to he staff now a days..
Click to expand...

Yes. Please read contracts before agreeing...

See above: "Btw. FuryFudge was not involved in Vault of ECC before this contract was approved. Nor was he loaned the money at this time". Please check the post dates of all content. Again not trying to be nasty but please before attacking anyone (aimed at everyone not just you @ajp79) please get the facts straight.

I loaned to FuryFudge. The borrower does NOT choose who contributes, I choose that. Blame me for that for "rigging" it. I had no business interaction with FuryFudge at the time of the loan. He is not to blame besides approving a contract with open ended late fees. That is his ONLY wrong-doing.

I am capable of refunding all investments. People like investing though. And I do not wish to return an investors money if he chooses to slander and avoided contacting me about this via PM now it is a public issue which is damaging my reputation.

Give me a final outcome from staff, with evidence of payment and everything is all sorted and I will pay out this money. I still want this loan repaid, but give me a legitimate staff result and I will repay this investment. But I guarantee you that there will be many, many unhappy people no matter how this situation is resolve. One outcome will be much worse than the other... But that is not up to me.

UnitedStates2 said: ↑

The contract FuryFudge approved is irrelevant. The only thing wrong with it was the open-ended late fees which were settled. That's not the issue though. The issue is Obble's defense against paying it claiming that he has lent the money out to fury. There is absolutely no proof that he lent the money out to fury. The problem lies with the numerous investment contracts that shouldn't have been approved, but were approved. Not the loan contracts.
Click to expand...

I agree with first half. And I have proof of loaning to FuryFudge. However if we are choosing to go down this road I want proof of investment paid to myself. Please, I haven't seen ANY proof of this investment, sorry.

RyanBlocks2 said: ↑

Well, I suppose I may as well throw in my two cents.

The way I see it a few things are true.

1. Ldw owes money for the loan to obblebobble

2. Obblebobble must pay back the money invested in VoE to ldw. There is no proof it is loaned to Fury. Now, assuming the spreadsheet is enforced Fury has a loan out. I get that giving an extension to a friend is nice, but as an investment business you can't tie up people's money without making them money. As such ldw needs to be paid back. It's not fun paying back money to someone only to never see it again but that's in contract.

3. Late fees. I think the 1 week late fees of 70k is a fair addition to the price owed. ldw clearly want it to be 0 in late fees which is silly to me considering he would owe a ton more if staff hadn't come to reduce that amount. I think this is what happens when you start calling late fees "predatory" on a case by case basis.

4. I don't think this was in any way some grand conspiracy to scam ldw. Some of the accusations I've seen in this thread (like fury intentionally approving bad contracts) are just ridiculous. The amount of nastiness in this thread is really disappointing.
Click to expand...

1. Yes that's right
2. Yes that's right. Proof is spreadsheet and corresponding dates. Please filter through 40 replies to Vault of ECC page on forums and match the dates up. I have nothing to hide please read this. FuryFudge has been given an extension on the loan as he is helping us with accounting work this has nothing to do with our friendship. His accounting work pays for his late fees, he studies this at university so that's why we have him helping us as accountant.
3. Yes. I agree.
4. If I wanted to scam some money I'd take the other $10,000,000 invested. Why would I bother with one of the smallest investments I have. I didn't even think this issue would arise. I don't see why half the people here have not been warned for slander. Fury did nothing wrong, I did nothing wrong and according to the screenshots Ldw116 has not repaid his loan. I am not going to call him a "scammer" until I have a verdict from staff.

Zedoker said: ↑

I will be taking the liberty of using this as my defense for reporting a more appropriate response. What I am going to say is relevant in all ways, as it is pretty much an essential part of this case, and would probably help with the case. I edited out the parts that were "aggressive"

I am asking that a staff member not associated in anyway with this complaint be the deciding factor if this comment should be deleted, and even then, it could have been edited. This is relevant.

@Obblebobble
So, basically ldw owes you a certain amount. I get that, loan scamming happens, this is a rightful complaint.
However, we dive in.
@ldw116 requested his loan back on 3/2, as stated by your screenshots, but isnt getting them back. Why?
@FuryFudge has "his" money.

After looking through your spreadsheet, it says that @FuryFudge received the loan from various users, including ldw on 12/25.
It was due 1/29, as demonstrated by the highlight section on the following spreadsheet.

Seeing how this loan is now late... 44 DAYS, im pretty sure late fees don't cover that (seeing how I dont see an extension, or even the fact that I got a 14 day late fee thing.)
@FuryFudge is currently loan scamming if he has not paid back.
This leads to my point.
Seeing how ldw's money was used on this, we can see how this leads to what we have here today.
Ldw is owed his 235,000 with the interest if this loan was paid on time, or fury deserves a ban, and even then ldw is still promised his money, as clearly stated by your contract and your entire system.

Youre trying to pass off the fact that a loan, that is just ridiculously late, warrents ldw not getting his money? I'm sorry but this is the definition of a scam.
There can be 2 ways that this goes.
1. Staff can find that your spreadsheet is not usable as evidence, my argument goes away, but so does yours, as I havent seen any evidence of fury's loan outside of your spreadsheet
2. Staff can find that your spreadsheet is usable, and therefore my point is valid.
Either way, you've seemingly screwed yourself with your own spreadsheet, and you have screwed over @ldw116 by letting @FuryFudge take his time to pay back his loan (44 days up to this post to be exact).

Apologies for tagging, but I really feel that the Server Admins, @ClarinetPhoenix and @Evanescence_ should really be handling this complex issue, and hopefully I have cleared up some of the points that have been attempted to be made.
Click to expand...

Yes he owes me money. You are right.

I owe him money assuming the following is met:
1. He shows proof
2. Fury repays his loan
3. Other terms in contract. Have most likely stated all of these before and what not.

By the way. This SPECIFIC complaint has NOTHING to do with investments at all. This is based on a loan that is late and should've resulted in a ban.

Fury is late yes. He has not officially scammed as I have not filed a complaint. It is up to me to file a complaint, it's simply late. If ldw116 still has his investment here then he will receive his portion of the late fees. FuryFudge is working on our accounting stuff to extend his loan due date. I have other over-due loans which have not been filed yet. They will be paid eventually.

Once fury is banned I will repay ldw116 immediately. Or once fury has repaid I will repay ldw116 immediately. This complaint once again is nothing to do with that, it is loan scamming from ldw116.

Basically how it works is if you screw me over or anyone I am associated with within VoE (loan scamming) then I will do everything it takes to legally delay this money as long as possible. Assuming I rightfully owe @ldw166 this. Here is proof of the furyfudge loan:

If this spreadsheet is not valid. Here is my proof above.
If this spreadsheet is valid then sure it's 44 days late, you're right. Then what? It's not yet scammed, just "late". Someone owes me money in July when the initial due date was February. Scammed no. Just late.

Please.. please provide proof of this payment being sent to me. Then please also repay this money within 30 minutes of this post because it is well overdue and I am not willing to negotiate any more on this matter regarding alternatives. Sa's should be handling this yes and I believe they are.

ldw116 said: ↑

Look this has gone on for waaaaay to long so lets make it simple.

Obble needs to pay me 235k asap
I will get banned for not paying this loan.
I will appeal at a later date and appeal it.

If I am banned before obble pays me obble needs to get banned too as he is in breach of contract at this point. Even if he isn't in breach of the original, he made a new agreement when he said he would pay me.

AND FOR THE RECORD, @FuryFudge WAS NOT A PART OF VOE WHEN HE APPROVED MY INVESTMENT
Click to expand...

But seriously, thanks for your point on FuryFudge not being a part of Vault of ECC. I appreciate that.

============================================================================

Please don't slander me, Vault of ECC or any other users involved within VoE. It does not end well for anyone Lets let the staff handle this and wait it out. This has gone on too long.

OutOfMoneyHunny · Mar 14, 2016

Just one last question why was a complaint not filed on @FuryFudge after he was late with the loan. For sure if it was anyone else you would have filed a complaint leading to @FuryFudge being banned if he did not have any money. How do you think your investors feel the money they thought was going to be theirs once again is now locked away in a cycle that could potentially never end.
As you stated before you make numerous attempts in your contract to keep your investors money. For example if they are banned for 2 months you keep the money.

Now on with this cycle. If this cycle was to continue @Obblebobble could never consider what @FuryFudge as loan default rather him being late, however who knows how long this can last for? 100 days? 180 days?

The only difference with your loan for @IsraelLawson that was now due 4 months later is that he was actually banned. Fury was never banned does not have a payback date anymore (as it seems to the public eye) and your investors money is trapped in a never ending cycle.

It seems to me by not filing a complaint and allowing Fury to keep holding the money without having been giving a new date by staff, brings you @Obblebobble at the breach of the rules of common sense (by allowing your investors money to be in a never ending cycle) and as well as scamming.

Genovani · Mar 14, 2016

Obblebobble refunds investor money out of his own funds (if they ask for a refund at this given time they receive their original investment before that loan went through because the loan hasn't been fully paid) because it's a part of his "Secure investment clause" or something close to that. It means he'll refund the investors money involved in that loan regardless of it being scammed or not. Only difference is, if they wait till fury repays the money, they get interest, and if he turns out to scam, they'll still get money back either way.

ClarinetPhoenix · Mar 14, 2016

@ldw116
@Obblebobble
I'm scrapping the late fees. This was a mistake and we're not to enforce open-ended late fees at all. Not really fair to make this user pay for a Staff mistake of not realizing that term was not legal in the contract. Its a double-edged sword and neither party can totally excuse the blame. Anyway...
450k is owed to Obble, and was due over two weeks ago. This is via contract

The complaint is about the loan. The investment is in the other complaint which ldw has filed against Obble. Neither of you have come to an agreement about the loan and its been five days. I won't allow the investment to be used as it is an object of dispute here as that completely derailed the complaint.
Your loan was already overdue when you requested your investment back. Regardless, that is still irrelevant to the case of an overdue loan. Obble may have offered to use your investment to negate some debt, but you declined the offer and then this derailed the complaint into a dispute over the investment. You still owe 450k to Obble and I haven't seen any evidence of it being paid.
For all of you commenting about his investment being held, that didn't belong here and that isn't what the complaint was about.

@ldw116 has been banned for Loan Scamming.

[User Complaint] @Ldw116

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