This has already been suggested many times. I can't wait to see it happen.

 

After being suggested at least 5 different times, I still can't believe the staff care so much about the kits to ignore the opinions of more than half the community.

 

More than half? Since when? Do you know how big the community actually is? The amount of people who want this isn't even half of the people who play SG, let alone the whole server.

 

Maybe there is a reason it is being suggested so often.

Go up to a builder and explain to them this idea. They would be happy to have games without kits.

Most of the active members of the community would say no to this idea simply because they enjoy using kits themselves. I have seen too many arguments saying "I paid for these kits to win more".

But the opinion ECC should actually focus on is the builders and residents who haven't donated. They are usually invisible, but they make up more than half of the sg community. Just do /who ingame and tell me that there are more kitters than non-kitters.

Builders and residents are the only ones who make up the players of tomorrow. While you do want to make your veterans happy, it is more important to make the newcomers happy, so you have new veterans when the old ones leave. I have brought 3 or 4 friends to ecc, and they all left because they couldn't stand how overpowered the kitters were in sg. I have seen many other builders complain about this too, yet ECC does nothing but make kits more overpowered. While you may be thinking short-term, I'm thinking about the future.

If you think that the people who haven't donated agree with kits, then think again.

 

That is not 100% true. The players of tomorrow are most likely the players of today as well. Sure, people come and go, but lots of people stay here.

Why should we not cater to those who help the server meet its operating costs, as well as provide an advantage to those who do? I'd imagine at least recently, kits make up a rather large portion of feature purchases. If there were no kits, or kit sales, or a decline in them, some new source of income would be needed, most likely in the form of a new overpowered feature.

You bring up a good point about impressing the newcomers, and personally, I think the best way is to allow everyone/all donors certain kits that are slightly more powerful than the basic game but less powerful than current kits. Add a high cooldown (1-3 hours, maybe as much as a day). This will help entice those who enjoy sg to donate for the "full versions" - less cooldown, better items, etc. This will appease the newcomers, and appease the people with kits.

You mention you see the argument "I paid for these kits to win more" too often, well... maybe that's for a reason? Older players are just as important as the new ones, because without them, we wouldn't have the amazing community that makes ECC what it is. As well, you mention "Go up to a builder and explain to them this idea. They would be happy to have games without kits." The average builder doesn't stay for more than a day, returning maybe once or twice. Some may leave due to SG, but there are an infinite amount of reasons why people may leave.

Lastly, you mention "...yet ECC does nothing but make kits more overpowered." This is false, with the exception of ++ kits, most recent changes to kits have nerfed them. You can see splash effects when you hit invisible players, so you know where they are. Armor now calculates before death, so buffer+miq is no longer a guaranteed 1 hit kill.

 

This is an economy server, the purpose of this server is to get money and buy things. kits are one of those things you can buy.
EVERYTHING is obtainable with in-game money, this includes kits. Because of just that, I don't think this should happen. New players come to an ECONOMY server, not an SG server. The SG we have here is made to work with our economy, kits are a vital part of that.
This is because of 2 main reasons.
1, they add diversity to SG. (Splash potions, enhancement potions, bows, swords, armour, invisibility)
and 2, they get more donations, this also stimulates the in-game user-user market for selling donations. I didn't buy my kits from my own money, I bought them with giftcards and in-game money, and a basic kit is only a week's worth of work for anyone with a decent pickaxe. (assuming you spend about 1-2 hours a day mining)

I used to believe kits are overpowered. (although I do think spy's invis potion needs to last 1 minute instead of 3 minutes)
But now I think something different. Everyone can obtain kits, and you don't necessarily need to play SG to make money. Therefore it's easy to obtain such a kit and get on a more even playing field. The rest you need is simply skill.

Also, you're assuming everyone on /who plays SG, and that everyone who doesn't have a kit thinks the same way as you do. Quite a naive assumption, might I add. As I've seen plenty of non-kit builders completely destroy kit users.

It's a matter of skill and dedication. Not a matter of removing that VITAL aspect of the ECC Survival Games.

 

Well, kits are overpowered. But I must admit, since everyone can obtain them with in-game ecodollars, it's "fair" in the end.

The biggest problem is the way new users see the system and how often it discourages play for users who don't have them. The way ECC is advertised brings in more users than you think for just the SG alone - there is a reason Andrew strives to get it and is putting so much effort into it, it contributes to server growth exponentially. Thus, it's important it lives up to peoples hopes and expectations. The act of finding yourself dying to "Overpowered" kits all the time does not leave a good impression. It also leaves ever older users avoiding it for the simple fact that they "can't win without kits" or they don't want their stats harmed until they have kits, leaving the maps empty and hard for newer players to join.
Certainly, I know users should be encouraged to explore the server rather than just doing SG, but from a business standpoint I'm not sure it makes sense. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this is how it makes sense to me.


As for the suggestion, though: I don't feel it's a good idea. The moment you have kit users in their own servers, the point of having the kits is lost. You're still on even ground, you're just on even ground with more powerful swords and frequent bows...It would certainly even the playing field, but the ruins the whole point of purchasing the kits in the first place. Trust me, people aren't in it for the rewards as much as they are in it to win. You'd be surprised how the psychology of it works.
I seriously wish it was this easy, but I'm afraid it isn't. It's too risky to assume it could, either, because it's hard to go back once it's in place.

 

That would defeat the point of kits entirely. In an arena where everyone has an advantage, nobody does.

 

I don't have a problem with the simple fact of being able to buy bonus features in sg.
What I have a problem with is the fact that everything in the sg shop is extremely overpowered.

Here's the definition of pay-to-win:
"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

Yes, it is possible to earn donation features with ingame money on this server, but still paying makes it at "a faster rate".

The thing is, andrew hasn't learned that you don't need to overdo things to earn donations. You don't need to disable vanilla abilities and make them donor only, such as water and anvils, to make money for the server. You don't need to make everything in your minigame overpowered, even if it may be a part of the economy. The economy aspect shouldn't be any different from if it was instead a minigame server. Look at any other server, and you will see that they can survive just fine without doing the above.

I'll use a personal example.
I played a certain large server for a long time, and eventually got in over a year in moderation. Eventually, I grew very close to the owner. At one point, he started putting really overpowered kits into his hungergames, and they weren't even as bad as the ones here. Because of this, he got so many complaints on the forums (just like what is seen here), that he was in a pickle. He didn't want to lose donations, or make his players unhappy, but he also didn't want to lose any newcomers.

I convinced him to remove the new kits, and tone them down to where they barely gave you an advantage. Yes, the veterans were a little disappointed at first, but that only lasted 1 or 2 weeks. The lesser players were extravagant, and more and more people joined, which gave a bigger player base for possible donations.

My point is, people will pay anything even for the slightest advantage. His server turned out fine, and he still got plenty of donations.

If everyone is really able to obtain kits, why not make the kits cost ingame money themselves? Then purchases could give them slight bonuses, or cooldown reductions like they exist now.

On another note, I really do believe that much more than 50% of the sg community would be happy for a kit-free game wall. I know I'm assuming, but I haven't seen any sign of my assumption of being wrong. And if I am right, then why are we keeping something that makes half the community unhappy? They aren't "vital" to the survival games, because I'm pretty sure you can have a survival games without overpowered kits.

I would appreciate if you don't call me naive. While I may be only a resident, I've been here longer than a few of the staff members.

Whether or not you can earn them yourself does not change the fact that they are overpowered. Making you be able to see hitting an invisible person doesn't count as a nerf, since it should have been there in the first place. A real nerf should let you only use 1 kit at a time, or harshly decrease the advantages gained by the only kits people buy (Which is about 5 of them). All I have seen is the addition of ++, or adding new kits altogether.

Overall, this suggestion will benefit the server immensely. As long as you keep the number of non-kit boards to a minimum, people will still join the older versions. While I think adjusting the kits alone is a better idea, this will also work too since Ecc refuses to deal with them.

I'll leave you with this question.
Do you really want this server to be pay-to-win?

 

By that definition, the server is pay-to-win whether intended to be or not, because you can always donate for EcoDollars.

--

I have one question for you:
What do we tell the players who have spent hundreds of dollars or spent as many hours buying kits, kits that would become worthless/severely devalued by this? Andrew can't refund the money, there's just too much. You can't just say, "Sorry guys, you're outta luck", because that would just drive people away. Coupon codes maybe, but some people have spent too much on kits (or have everything else) for that to work.

 

Actually, you can. In my example, when people donate, there is an agreement that states "The server reserves the right to change any donation perks at any time."

Yeah, people might be a bit upset, but they get over it eventually. I have seen it before, and it works.

 

what is miq's stats again

 

If this happens it would ruin the server I have cc+ and if had not kids and this happened wouldn't spend a penny got one if I would face kit users for 99% of the people you get kits for an advantage this gives them no advantage never will happen I hope

 

Again. It's always the exact same argument.
"I paid to win, so I want to be able to win easily."

 

Just because the server can, doesn't mean it will. Andrews not going to tell a rather large group of donors "Sorry, I've decided to make those hundreds of dollars of features nowhere near as useful as they were and no longer worth what you paid".

 

And so instead he's telling everyone who joins here "Sorry, this server is meant to be pay-to-win"?

The best thing would have been for him to not to do this in the first place, but since it's too late, that doesn't mean he shouldn't fix his mistake and try to prevent it from getting worse.

 

I don't see whats so unfair with kits, everyone know kits are existing, and everyone got the opportunity to get them. Kit users got kits because they paid for it. And they deserve the advantage. If you also want to be in "a fair fight" do as everyone who got kits: Pay! With in game or IRL money. We (kit users) haven't done anything you (non-kitters) cant do, so it would be unfair to punish us by taking our advantage away. And if you disagree, this is not a SG server, its an Economy server. If you want to play SG with non-kitters, fell free to change server.