I tried having this discussion in game, but I think people misunderstood. I am not advocating for max pick mining to be anywhere close to equal to eff7 pick mining. I am saying that I have found through extensive trials that mining is just not as profitable as fishing or farming. The prices are broken in one way or another. Let me explain how. (I'll be using highgarden prices for everything in this post) Mining is the riskiest basic activity of the 3 options. It has potential for death from lava, mobs, fall damage, or suffocation. It's also based largely around luck and thus is extremely variable. At max I have found it to make 15k in an hour with very good luck. With normal luck it's anywhere from 9k-12k in an hour. Now we will assign you an extremely lucky mining trip where you make $21k in an hour. Keep in mind that's equivalent to finding 800 iron ore (12.5 stacks @ $13 each), 100 diamonds ( 1.5 stacks @ $26 each), 1250 pieces of coal (19.5 stacks @ 1.20 each), 250 gold ore (3.9 stacks @ $6 each), 1050 redstone (16.4 stacks @ $1.90 each), and 1650 xp (3 nstars @900 each) in a single hour. Those are very difficult quotas to meet in an hour of mining, so just keep that in mind. That would be a very good mining trip for an eff5 pickaxe. So mining trip A= $21,000 roughly with a max pick. Now for fishing. If you have a Lure 3 rod, the time between catches is 0-15 seconds, so we will go with the impossible assumption that the average time to catch a single fish will take 13 seconds, meaning 4.61 fish per minute, or a total of 277 fish in an hour. Now, using the breakdown from minecraft wiki on % chance to catch each type of fish, this should leave you with 166 Cod ($6.50 each), 69 salmon ($16.25 each), 36 Puffers ($351 each), and 6 tropical fish ($520 each). This leaves us with $1079 of Cod, $1121 of salmon, $12,636 of Puffers, and $3,120 in tropical fish for a total of right at $18,000. So on your luckiest mining trip with a max pick, you're making $21,000 in an hour, while a fishing trip that has an impossible rate of catch for a max rod, you're making only $3,000 less than the maximum one could expect to make mining. Lets calculate an average fishing trip now. Since you have a chance of a bite anywhere between 0-15 seconds, lets assume average is 7.5 seconds. This equates to 8 fish per minute or 480 fish per hour. Under these circumstances one could expect to catch 288 Cod, 120 Salmon, 62 Puffers, and 10 Tropical fish for a total of $30,784. That's an AVERAGE fishing trip. So once again, Lucky mining trip = $21,0004 Impossibly unlucky fishing trip = $18,000 Average fishing trip = $30,000 So no, this isn't about making max tools equal to star tools. It's not about making it "easier" for plebs to work their way up to star tools. Hell, I don't care if you downgrade fishing to a level that is equal to mining. I would just like to be able to mine without shooting myself in the foot financially. Mining is my favorite activity, despite the risk. So please don't tell me I don't have the tools to analyze the economy, don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about, don't tell me I am just stupid or lazy or just want to get to a star tool faster, because I don't. If all I cared about was star tools, I wouldn't have spent half an hour writing this and I would just be fishing for profits. If you disagree, disagree about the way I want to make things equal (by raising mining prices). Don't disagree about the math, because I just did it for you and it is literally in this post. EDIT: I didn't include the cost of xp in my fishing breakdown. This would give you a bit more than the values mentioned. Probably 1 nstar worth for an hour. Also... MAKE MINING GREAT AGAIN
EDIT: I forgot to add in xp for fishing. Add in xp if you want to calculate it, but it will only reinforce my point.
Rather than doing the math for fishing you should probably do some in game research to back up your point, as you're not taking into effect mcmmo droprates, and other variables that ECC has compared to the minecraft wiki. Also if you're making around 21k an hour mining with a max pick then on an unlucky trip you're not going to be dropping under 15k an hour really, probably more around 17-18k for an average. Which is good for a max tool when you think about prices of the tools. Max pick being 10k to buy you pay it off and start earning profit within an hour of mining, compared to and eff7 which costs 2mil and makes around 40k an hour it will take you 50 hours of straight mining before it starts being worth the investment. Star tools should be something that are very hard to obtain, I much prefer star tools being 2mil compared to when they were just over 1mil. Also you say you like mining the most, but no one is forcing you to mine, if you want to make more money, you have the option to fish. You're causing yourself to earn less money by sticking to mining when no one is forcing you to do, then complaining when you're not making as much as you'd like to be. It's not like saving up from just making money with max tools if your only option to get star tools either, you can get loans or payment plans for star tools which mean you can start earning with them straight away, so it's not like you have to grind for 100 hours with a max pick in order to buy an eff7. I still don't understand your argument, all I'm getting from this post is that if fishing makes 30k an hour with just a lure 3 rod, which I doubt highly, then it needs a nerf lol. Just under 20k an hour mining with a max pick is good for a tool that costs next to nothing.
So your argument basically boils down to refuting the math which I laid out nicely and comes straight from the wiki explaining how the game works, and then turning around and saying "if you don't like mining being handicapped then just do something else!" What a productive way to solve problems, I hope our leaders think of that. Hmmm... Maybe the solution to climate change is to just to go to another planet! Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away, Georgia. My point actually has nothing to do with the numeric value assigned to mining. I don't care if it makes $5,000, $10,000, or $100,000 an hour. I just don't want it to be HALF of what fishing is. It would be nice to be able to go out and do the most dangerous and involved method of making money in the game without having to accept the fact that JiggleyJeff69 can be sitting at a pond with one hand on the mouse and the other scrolling through instagram making double what you're making.
I Read your amounts and some of your numbers did not seem correct to me, so I decided to do my own test. I did not want to spend 2 whole hours so I decided to just test 10 minutes for mining and 10 minutes for fishing. Keep in mind both of these activities are very luck based, so you are not getting the same amount of each item each time. Now while I have Fly+,Water+, and Pyro+, I chose not to use any of my features during my test. However I do have a level 705 Mining, so My Super Breaker length might have had apart to do with it. I had a max shovel, max fortune pickaxe, and a max silk touch pickaxe on me, as long as a water bucket to cover over the lava. In 10 Minutes, I made 3.6k + 1Nstar. If i were to multiply this to make the full hour length I would have made ~21.6k + 6 Nstars. I feel like for the Fishing part, you forgot to remember how Normal Mc Fishing also drops "junk items" so # of casts does not equal the number of fish you catch. ECC uses McMMO, which while (As Far as I know) does not change the % chance of catching a specific fish, it does change the "non fish" items and the percent of when you get them. I only have level 69 (nice) fishing, so I believe I am in the same fishing tier as a beginner on the server, so once again no unfairness towards myself. In 10 Minutes of fishing, I made 2.9k +1/2 a NetherStar, equaling 17.4k + 3 NetherStars. Hmm, seems to me that Mining makes more money than Fishing for me. If anything instead of rising Mining like you have said, we Should raise fishing prices to make it more fair. The point that I am making here is that the Developer team takes into consideration EVERYONE who is doing each money making method, and in the average of everyone, Mining and Fishing are about equal.
Using 10 minute increments doesn't dictate what the hourly rate is over multiple hours lol... That's statistical dishonesty and shouldn't even be relevant in an argument about profits/hour. That's like sampling 10 people to see what New York City thinks of a restaurant. You could get 10 people who say it's great when 80% of the city thinks it sucks. So ignoring the blatant statistical errors of your post, you also went mining for an hour before this "test" and didn't post those results. Mind sharing? Or did they not produce results that would refute my claim? The reality is that mining makes less than 20k an hour average and since nobody is actually mentioning the facts about fishing, it's safe to assume that it makes 30k an hour if you focus and cast your reel immediately following every time you catch a fish. Yes you catch *some* junk too, but in my experience it's like 1 piece per 100 fish or some ridiculously low number. I also didn't factor in xp for fishing. So again, using 10 minute anecdotal pieces of evidence doesn't actually hold up to my post which analyzed the math behind each method. I don't get the resistance to this. The prices of every item in the economy have been changed a million times in the past, so why are people so reluctant to possibly admit they might need adjusting again? What is in it for you to keep them handicapped? Why can we not just admit that there is such thing as balancing the economy and fixing errors such as one method being 2x better than another? Let's just MMGA, together.
The reason why everyone is hesitant to change the prices is because it will impact the economy in different ways. But i do think more people should run this test over multiple days and see the results instead of just a few over tiny moments in time
I'm saying the numbers you got from the wiki will not reflect ECC values, that is my point. Prove me wrong, go fish for an hour and get back to me but you can't expect other people to get evidence when you're the one trying to persuade other people that something needs to be changed. I'm not saying ignoring problems makes them go away, I'm saying to fix this problem, IF fishing really does make that much money with a basic lure 3 rod it should be nerfed - there's my solution to your problem, mining does not need a buff, 18-20k an hour with a max rod is plenty. And it's not a problem that one way of making money isn't as good as another way, that's just how making money is, some things make more money than others. But that's not my point my point is is that your math being based on the minecraft wiki almost certainly makes it inaccurate as ecc values are changed. Like you said, using 10 minute increments might not be 100% accurate, however it will be way more accurate than your values got from the minecraft wiki - not ECC based at all.
Nah, I got bored and only did 10 Minutes of mining because I wanted to go back to Melon Farming. I think that testing for a 10 minute interval and stating the average of MY test is relevant in an argument about the average on a server, a lot more than looking up the percent of times that things drop, as I do have a more real world value than what was found in your calculations. I do have my own mining thread where I post the exact amounts of specific items I found, as well as their worths if you want to check it out. https://ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/otterinaonesies-mining-thread.191936/#post-1055266 Staff member @Zedoker also has a similar thread that I believe has more max pickaxe farming avaliable. https://ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/mining-report.182333/
As @GeorgiaMC has tested the numbers you got are not accurate, I have fished with a Star-Rod, which is significantly better than the rod you were testing with. With this rod I was lucky if I had an hour where I got close to 30k an hour, i was closer to 25k an hour, and mind you that is with enchantments that make quite a difference. I do believe your mining numbers are pretty accurate, but there are aspects on the server that change our fishing outcomes a little bit. Spend an hour doing fishing itself and you should see that the numbers for fishing and the numbers for mining are not as different as you are currently claiming.
Values from minecraft wiki reflect fishing from minecraft. If someone wants to save their fish for like 10 hours worth of fishing and get back to me with the numbers, they can. I've never seen anything to suggest that fishing produces different results on ECC than in regular minecraft?
Ok, so we're just going to operate under the assumption that fishing produces different results for ECC than it does for minecraft. Nobody has any proof or even a theory as to why this is, we just want to believe so. Why would the %s for types of fish vary on this server? If anyone wants to catch 1000 fish and get back to me with the breakdown in percentages, I think that would be a good way to analyze the %s instead of just assuming and guessing.
@CP3fan1 for reference on pricing, there was a suggestion regarding fishing prices, and a user went in depth regarding what it does pay. And Mind you this user was using a Star Rod for the testing. https://ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/main-city-server-suggestion-buff-fishing-prices.182530/ There is the link, the prices you claim are Star rod, max MCMMO level for fishing kind of prices.
So, I’m going to go on record and say I didn’t read the entire posts, nor test fishing and mining. There is also one factor you aren’t considering when you think of prices: how easy one can use cheats to gain extra money and how easy they can get away with it. Mining is one of the easiest ways to cheat ECD, which I can say is a reason why it’s not really that good (also, Eff7’s are more popular for excavation projects now it seems). I believe the economy prices are good as they are
@CP3fan1 as a former SA having worked with our fishing/mcmmo setup I can vouch that the numbers will be totally different than in vanilla Minecraft. my 2 cents here but the numbers you have here aren't particularly relevant to the larger argument. Why? You're not using the most efficient means of these tasks. Calculating mining earnings without an eff7 is silly, because prices are set as a cap based on how much they want people making with eff7s.
I regularly pull in 18-20k hr with max tools mining.. I admit I don’t do it as much but sometimes I do it when I don’t have my eff7. I use toolswitcher so that I fortune3 as I mine and break dirt/gravel easy.. I have pyro and max armor so my risk factor is very minimal.. what I think you are really arguing is based more around features? With the right features there is no risk to mining any more then farming or fishing.. I just hold my mouse key and use /speed.. For a new player with no feats sure mining probably isn’t the best option due to risk but you have to consider what would happen if we increased rates based on this... You make more yes... but then someone like me or anyone using an eff7 now makes double whatever you make. There has to be a max factor to prevent an economic crash.
I know this is dead but I spent 9 hours of focusing purely on differentiating between 3 major means of making money: melon farming, mining and fishing. I will note right now: -I farmed, mined and fished for 3 hours straight for each method with no distractions. I took a break between each hour in order to tally up, then continued to time myself. This no-lifeing of me made it the most efficient as possible. -For melon farming, I obviously used a melon sword (almost 1k herbalism, not much of a difference) -For fishing, I used a starrod (low fishing level-only counted fish) -For mining, I used an eff7 and a max fortune pick to mine out redstone, diamonds, lapis, coal and emeralds (also got exp from mining it out in the mining world). -For the numbers I'm indicating now, these are SERVER prices, meaning that people with prestige shops buy it for more, thus elevating the numbers. This is a simple count of server prices to serve as a base comparison. If you want more money, go to a server shop. -In addition, I'm including a set price of $800/nstar, which is per 550 exp earned. This is only set for mining/fishing, as melon farming doesn't grant exp. -While I am using star tools and you can claim its unfair to use end-game level money-making, it's similar to what @Nicit6 said above: These tools are the most efficient means possible of making money. If there's a difference at the highest level, then it should trickle down to the max tool level as well. With max tools, the differences wont be as severe, however it will still produce less money as a whole compared to star tools. It's just how the game works. To not stall any longer, here are the numbers Spoiler: Melon Farming Hour 1- 18547.2 Hour 2- 18988.8 Hour 3- 18733.5 Average- 18756.5 Spoiler: Mining Hour 1- 28122.7 Hour 2- 27382.75 Hour 3- 30589.3 Average- 28698.25 (4.5 nstars on average- $3600 extra) Spoiler: Fishing Hour 1- 17350 Hour 2- 18060 Hour 3- 18075 Average- 17828.33 (2.6 nstars on average- $2080 extra) Now, what does this mean? Ranking the money-making methods: 1. Mining - 28698.25/hour +$3600 for nstars (32298 average) 2. Fishing - 17828.33/hour + $2080 with nstars (20020 average) 3. Melon Farming - 18756/hour Clearly theres a huge difference between the money, with mining actually winning out. Fishing actually would be last if exp wasn't a factor. Now, another note: The mining was done in a brand new maineast mining world: The ores were relatively untouched and fresh. Towards the end of the money, the mining world generally sucks for mining, which leads to fishing and melon farming to be better and more consistent. In my 7 years of experience, mining falls to well below melon farming towards the end of the month, making it not consistent from experiment to experiment. With 3 mining worlds, it lessens the impact of this, but please note I did this literally the day after ME’s launch. Fishing and melon farming are the most consistent forms of money making, but they fall behind mining in the beginning of the month/with a fresh mining world, but towards the tail end when mining isnt as efficient, they are better. So, to your point that fishing is better than mining, I disagree by saying that the fresher the mining world, the better profits. The lessened quality of the mining world towards the end of the month leads to less profits. Fishing is popular because, while boring, its consistent. Same with melon farming. As always, the server prices aren't the best. Opt for highgarden or dolanaar or something to really make the best bang for your buck, so to say. Edit: I am not doing pumpkin farming because F that
Might I add- for mining the levels of blocks that I got hour-hour were incredibly different, which is why theres more severe gaps in between the hourly rates as compared to the other methods
I appreciate the research and hard work, Zed. However, please keep in mind a couple things. - This post was made before fishing prices were nerfed, and your experiment took place afterwards. The fishing totals on the old prices would've been higher. - The difference between max/eff7 pick is far greater than the difference in max rod/star rod. The star rod just decreases the average time the line is in the water by about 3 seconds. The eff7 bends hell and earth while the max pick can make 1x2 tunnels fairly quickly. The difference between the tools is enormous and not equal. I didn't say using end-game money methods was unfair, just that we can't base the economy off of it. - I also assume you use the autoswitch mod for mining. This definitely speeds up time and profit but I don't think most players use it. Not saying they can't, but it definitely isn't common in my experience as it's kinda useless if you don't have an eff7.
Undoubtedly, fishing would have been higher than 20k. However, I don't think any nerf would have taken it from above mining output to below mining output (mind the fact that mining was nerfed fairly recently too, so fishing would've had to have been nerfed waaaaay too hard) Comparing fishing to mining is like comparing a normal car to a dilapidated one that works half the time. Regardless of the quality of the car, the one that works half the time is going to only work... half of the time, even if its a newer one. The normal one is going to run the same every time. Fishing is going to be consistent. If you have a star rod, youre going to make ~20k (with current prices) each and every time. If you have a eff7, youre going to make 27.3-30k/trip. Granted, the outputs taken from mining are going to decrease over time as resources run low, but you arent going to get the same (or highly similar) amount each and every time. Same goes for lower tier tools. Fishing is going to remain consistent although at a smaller rate (lets say 13k because that seems reasonable) You're right in the fact that eff7s do mine faster, but I can guarantee that maxpicks don't decrease the value of mining compared to eff7s by over 15k. Will I test this? Eventually when I feel like using up 6 hours of my time, yes. I don't use any mods on minecraft. The one "exception" is that I have my gamma up all the way, so I don't need to use lighting sources. I see an ore that I can use a fortune pick on, then i switch manually over to it. It doesn't take literally more than a second (or even half a second) to switch over. It doesn't cost time and while it adds up, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make a difference.
