Damn, you people really don't like to take any other side of the story. I never said I was for scamming, neither did @Dccciz which is kind of disturbing that you would automatically assume that. Also, this was take from KH, so go consult him on that point if you truly hate it so much. I was saying that in instances, scamming is beneficial to the economy. You go onto say in a later post "...600k is spawned into the economy...". The money is taken out because $1.2 million would be in the economy over $600k! The user will never come back and that $600k is gone forever! That's how scamming takes money out of the economy. Simple math would have solved that problem for you. It's irrelevant that you say that actually because experience is the best teacher. The guy with 1.5 years of experience is going to get the job over the guy with 2 months of experience. That's logic for you right there. Was it irrelevant? Possibly, but it helps your argument because it shows that you are a more experienced user. Experience = Wisdom = Knowledge. That's how it works and that's why it was said. Any more inquires? Don't be afraid to hurl them at me .
1.5 years on ECC Is nothing. I personally have not been on the server very long (a little over 2 years) but I find is irritating for your to believe that you know the economy when you were not around to experience a large majority of it. Scamming will NEVER be good, no matter how you put it. Just to contrast it for you; a builder loses 10k from a scam. -10k is gone from the economy and the builder leaves the server. OR A builder spends 15k on resident -15k is gone from the economy. The user then stays on the server to continue ranking up and spending money thus removing it from the economy. Andrew as well as staff members despise scamming. And anything that could lower the chances of this occurring and further inconvenience for the staff of ECC is a plus. +1
Knears and I agree the scamming is bad, but it is needed. Why doesn't andrew refund money from scammers then? If the scammer scams 60k, and the scammer's balance is 60k, why doesn't andrew transfer the 60k back?
My point of the matter being is that I find myself to some degree economically literate. I'm away 1.5 years on ECC isn't a lot, but I've picked up on a lot of things along the way. What pisses me off, not only from you but from everyone else is that you all believe I am for scamming. It is quite the opposite. All I'm saying is that in the event a scam occurred and took a large, large amount of money out of the economy and the user never returned, the money being gone isn't necessarily a "bad thing", it was just a very unfortunate way for it leave the economy. If anyone begins to start saying I'm a criminal/rule breaking/advocator for scamming again, you have to read the recent posts a little more.
Indeed. My point is, if that user is to never return, that money is gone. Money out of the economy is a good thing, it's just an unfortunate way for it to leave. Also, why isn't money from scams refunded? Please answer that question and it will answer why scams are needed unfortunately. Again, I'm not advocating for scams, I'm just saying that when they occur, it's not a bad thing to the economy.
Money is not returned to scammed users because in real life this would not be so. In real life the only way to have your money returned after a scam is to reason with the criminal and come to an agreement. Andrew does and never will spawn money. Maybe you cannot comprehend but to say that scamming is needed for the economy or that Andrew wants people to scam is an insult. There are numerous other ways to remove money from the economy, many of which do not decrease the amount of active members playing on ECC. Scamming is and will always be a negative, it decreases the amount of votes for the server which drastically impacts the servers player count as well as decreasing possible donations.. There is no point arguing otherwise.
First of all, my concern starts with if it can function with our economy system. I watched the video, and so far as I know, the economy plugin mentioned that it is compatible with, is not the same as our system. Secondly, and this might sound a bit cynical, part of me feels that Trades being this safe would lower the 'hard core' aspect of the server. Its almost like a lesson on ECC that you have to learn that I feel is quite vital to learning the economy. I suppose one could argue it doesn't have to be vital but I do feel like its a lesson that is needed in a true hardcore economy. The concept that you can't trust everyone and you shouldn't assume you can. Perhaps I'm looking at it from the point of view of someone who has learned that lesson over a long time, but that is just my thoughts.
When the hell did I say andrew wants people to scam? Can you please point that out in a post of mine and then I'll believe you, but no where did I ever say that andrew wants people to scam. My point of the matter being is that as Revan pointed out, you have to be skeptical in trades and if you aren't skeptical enough, you will be scammed. Scammed money is usually kept in the users balance and then the user in question is banned. That money is now out of the economy. For the fifth time on this post, I have to say I'm not for scamming. Yes, there are more effective ways to take money out, this is just an additional bonus. That's why andrew doesn't give the money back. Also, it depends upon where you are in order to get your money back in the real world. Dependent on the local/state/federal investigations. So, you're 50% correct and I'll give you that. But no where did I ever say andrew and myself were for scamming.
1st. You are misusing Khobbits's words. 2nd. You didn't read the 600k scamming example. I showed you the "simple math" already. logic.
Don't worry, scamming will still happen even with this plugin being implemented! Those who choose not to use it will still lose their money/stuff. Not to mention, this wouldn't protect against loans or payment plans for any big ticket items. So the potential for learning from loss will still be there, and our "Hardcore" theme will still be strong However, as it comes to the players of the server, I feel that it is our responsibility to protect our players as best we can. Saying that we should not fix some problems because they need to learn is a bit silly As to the plugin not being compatible with our system, there are many such plugins out there, if there is a will, we will find one compatible
I have 3 years behind me, therefore I have more experience, meaning I have more wisdom and more knowledge. And I say you're wrong. (sounds like a stupid argument, doesn't it?) Did you even read the other posts? SCAMMED ITEMS DO NOT AFFECT THE ECONOMY POSITIVELY. SCAMMED MONEY RARELY LEAVES THE SERVER, IT USUALLY ENDS UP IN LOTTERY. Seriously, start reading the posts and use some logic and facts instead of some random assumptions based on a twisted understanding of what KH said.
The potential money that could have brought into the economy is now gone. I was confused for second and lost my focus. Now, $1.2 million is spawned into the economy and the potential money from the original eff7 was greatly decreased. What about lottery taxes. If it takes out $1.1 million as you said before, that money begins to leave. Damn, all you are so hung up on me for scamming in all of your posts. For the fifth hundred time, I'm against it and hate it!
I'm not "defending it". If you have read my posts, most likely just interpreting them incorrectly, I've been saying, when a scam occurs unfortunately, that money is taken out of the economy. That's why the money isn't taken from the user's balance and given back to the victim. Because the money is taken out. Andrew wouldn't spawn the money in as well, he would take it from the felon's balance and back to the victim's balance.
And I keep saying that the money is rarely in the scammer's balance, they usually spent it already before they're banned. I was refuting YOUR POINT. I'm not hung up on scamming, I'm hung up on trying to make you realize that scamming does not positively affect the server in any way. I don't care about opinions regarding the matter. Taking it from a felon's balance is only possible when that money is still in the felon's balance. Which is only rarely the case.
The currency plugins might not be exactly the same but what plugin doesn't require a little messing with to make it personal or unique? Hopefully it wouldn't require a lot of work to make them compatible. If it would require a lot of work, then I would understand not wanting to use it. I really cant agree with the concept of having the server so hardcore to where a players gaming experience is negatively effected by another player, when there are plugins available to prevent it. Things like that push people away from the server and give people the wrong impression. I understand the need for risks in an economy server, but in my opinion, those risks should be whether or not you should buy or sell at the given price. ECC has many features already in place to help keep a players gaming experience positive I also don't understand why the common answer to bugs or issues is "That's a lesson you just have to learn, everyone has to." I dont play ECC to learn a lesson that could be prevented with a plugin or extra coding... and if it's an issue everyone has... why hasn't it been fixed?! It's very confusing and seems like a dismissive shrug. I play minecraft to have fun, not to get scammed. This plugin would help make the community stronger and would help create a more positive gaming experience. It would also keep the new users that are confused about the rules or don't know about the loop holes in the rules. It would also reduce user complaints. So I'm failing to see the downside.
