If the scammers choose to appeal, and then re-join the server they will no longer and to give back/pay the scammed items/money. Also this would be "spawning" items/money into the economy which I do not believe should be done.

 

Although I do like your idea, refunding players will always be an issue within the main system of ECC.
You never know what is or what isn't past the side of the line. People lie, and people tell the truth. However who is hearing will never know which one is each.
This would bring to many problems for me to ever support this, unless we get an extremely organized system, for this particular one thing.

 

+1 Though how are they going to know the person is telling the truth. Maybe they have a screen shot of the money being sent but what about items. I know thins good plugin that lets you trade items easily and both users agree before receiving items what is great and they can take screenshots.

 

Well, with this, just put a negative balance on the player that recieved the loan. That way, money isn't taken out of the economy and the player must refund himself to get positive numbers. Like the idea.

 

Yet again, the user who lost the money wouldn't get it back.
Also, what you are saying has happened already, in a few cases I know about.

 

Ok, but first we are gonna have to change the name from 'ECC HARDCORE economy' to 'ECC Teddy bear economy'.

 

I do like helping out users that have been scammed, unfortunately this can have several problems. First off, if the user that scammed is unbanned they will still have the stolen items, by spawning in items to the victim of the scamming this spawns in items to the economy. Also, with some cases such as cases with donation scamming, the user will send the scammed ecodollars to another user or even use the money in lotto or purchase items/ranks with the scammed money. By giving money to the scammed user this would add in more money to the economy while the original scammed money would probably still be floating around in the economy.

Unfortunately, the only way to reimburse someone who was the victim of a scam would often lead to spawning in items/money to the server's economy. While it would be a great thing to help out those who have been scammed, I just don't think that spawning in items/money is something that should be done.

 

This was exactly what I typing out, and wanted to mention in my first post. I saw this when I opened a new tab.
Thank you :)

 

Spawning in items would have too many downsides, and could possibly be exploited. Get your friend who doesn't play on ECC to scam you but leave item in /cmodified chest. You get both of item, simple.
This is hardcore economy. With buying items only buy off someone you trust, and users generally aren't un-banned until they refund items or money. I just buy as little as possible especially off people I don't trust. I would never give a loan to anyone I don't trust, I have only ever gave loans to xX3PICREBELXx and KvBillo and they have been small. It all relates to the quote 'don't risk what you can't afford to lose.' giving someone a loan is almost risking your money, if it would be too much of a loss if they didn't repay don't do the loan.

 

You are correct. Since I started ECC Jan. 2012, I learned that you should NEVER loan. Basically, don't trust anyone, including your IRL friends.

 

This will most likely never happen due to the fact that the ECC staff already have a lot of things they have to get done each day, aswell as that the staff cannot spawn items, nor give out money, seeing as they most likely dont have permission to do this.

If a staff rank were to get permissions to spawn items that would mean major exploits in our economy, seeing as (not going to blame people, just naming a scenario) maybe one of our staff members who loves pvp, goes into pvp, forgets he has some spawned items on him, and gets killed, this means unneeded items are now floating around, that were also gotten unlegitly. Ecocitycraft's staff team is meant to play as a normal play, but help out players, and moderate the servers at the same time, I think spawning in items is to much power for any rank other than a owners (however that is just my viewpoint).

This would leave andrewkm, and wewinagain, with all the work of fixing scams, this means aswell as monitoring the server and making sure everything runs safe they have to fix things whenever there is a scam, they already do plenty of work, and trust me the job that andrewkm has is a stressful job (running a server).

I suggest only doing trades with people of the rank resident+, aswell as it always helps if the user is a donator, Remember to always take a screenshot of ANY transaction, even the small ones, seeing as you can never know.

When trading items like ores i suggest using a trade sign, this works with most items other than the enchanted ones, If you want to sell a enchanted pick/axe/shovel/any other tool, I suggest making a forum post where the user agrees, or taking plenty of screenshots.

***REMEMBER TAKE SCREENSHOTS OF ALL TRANSACTIONS!***

 

I'd like this, but I don't see this happening :p

There have been a lot of scams where the user just scams to leave as big a mark on ecc as possible.....
I'm out 51k due to these people o_O
I don't see andrewkm giving back say 500k to a person who bought investegator from the scammer when the scammer probably paid the money to someone else or if they just completely wasted it by buying pointless stuff.

 

Well, you see, ECC is a HARDCORE economy server that is all for the players. Everything is made by the players, for the players! You play on this server to PvP with others, build with or for others, trade with others, etc...It's a server for the people! If you get scammed, you and your friends must work together to get what you have lost back, that's a major part of this server. The server would become extremely boring without this twist to it.

 

I don't see it happening anytime in the future, and I really just see more cons than pros.

1. More Money Inserted Into the Economy: Just like Thecreator said, It's not that they have the money 'frozen' into their accounts and simply don't want to pay back, they will most likely use it for many possible objectives, lotto, buying things off other players, or things like towns, where if banned from the server, it will just sit there forever occupying space.

2. Exploits: You'd basically just need 2 friends with a minecraft account to duplicate your balance. User A "loans" User B, and User B gives it all to User C, who awaits patiently with the money, or leaves it in a sign only accesible to User 1. User A posts a Complaint against User B, who gets banned. User A gets reimbursed, and User C gives him the original transaction money.

3. Hardcore Economy: Just like skullman said, this is a HARDCORE Economy server, not a "Teddy Bear" Economy. People would simply go careless making big transactions as in case of scam every single penny will be returned. People need to be careful, otherwise we'll just be hanging around everyday with users who are like the stereotypical sons of rich people, spending all they want without worries as 'daddy' will give more again to them if something goes wrong.

4. More work for WeWin and andrew, as they'd have to check every allegedly scam transaction and the history of interaction between all involved parties to see if it was in fact a scam, and ensure they aren't trying to enrich themselves by abusing this feature (as mentioned in #2).

 

This topic is all ways one that I have thought about, but have never posted anything on, because the concept of this is awesome, just implementing it may be the issue.

In the time I have been a moderator on this server, I have dealt with most of the scamming cases that can realistically happen, and first think I want to say is, you can never have too many screenshots for these types of complaints. But the main issue that comes up is finding where the item/money has actually ended up. While I do think that reimbursements for loan/donation scamming should be given out if the money is still in the felon's balance, where it can be deducted and paid back to the victim. Finding a lost item would involve a very intensive search on the Staff's end, that could lead to no result.

So in short, if the felon still has the money in his balance to refund the victim(s), and if it would not tax andrew/wewin to do the refund, I would support the addition of this onto the server. Worse case, you can always ask a staff member that is free to question the users to see what they can fine, while that method is far from guaranteed to work, a good amount of users have returned stolen items if a Staff member question them in a very calm manner, though it can be very time-consuming to do so.

 

I like the suggestion. I know many users have been scammed including myself. However Unfortunatly there are some problems.

1. It would lead to false complaints.
- Scammers and greed driven people would start launching false complaints. They would try to frame you for scamming (even if you didn't) to get reimbursed.
2. Excessive time required to manage this.
- The staff have a lot on their hands. This brig such a huge responsiity (the ability to spawn in items and money) I'm sure it would be available to at least super mod+ if implemented and would take a lot of time. I'm sure we are all aware of how many scammed users there are every day.

I see where you are going with this and I love the idea, in a perfect world this would happen (well in a perfect world there would be no scamming at all .) Unfortunatly I believe the cons outweigh the pros on this one. Trust me I want to be reimbersed too when scammed. So -1 from me sorry. :(

 

this is what would happen if user appeals a ban they have to pay back all loans iteams etc if they are ban for such reson now if they have to pay it back you get 2x what you had now if the user/scammer gets all money/iteams removed from there account it would work but it would take alot of time

 

Now Andrew has many times stated, that be careful whom you deal these kind of problems with. If in your case User A, (my case User A is a he) needed to see whom he is dealing with, must trust User B, andrew won't refund or that will just be an exploit in the economy and as well, moderators give time to appeal to them self's to when they have been complained against, if they don't complete in let's just say 24 hours to appeal then that's their fault and need to suffer the thing User B has done.

Let's just say User B get's back on ECC, he will try to get that 100k or he will be banned once again. After that the staff may give up, now that's not only User B's fault but User A, for his trust to user B of the loan.

 

When you joined the forums you kinda agreed to this disclaimer.

By joining our server you hereby agree to the following terms and conditions of your use of the EcoCityCraft Website/Server. You will not install client side mods which let you item spawn, speed hack, fly hack, x-ray hack, or cause any server wide changes, or give you any illegal advantages. This includes abusing the economy/server system in any way to get an unfair advantage over any other player/user. You agree to not exploit any part of the coding or server state or cause any significant map changes using commands legally or illegally obtained. Violation of these rules will immediately get you banned/suspended. The activity, chat logs, command usage, world editing, and IP addresses of all players are recorded to aid in enforcement of Administrative Action. You agree that the EcoCityCraft Server Staff has the right to kick, ban, mute or moderate any player at any time anyway they should see fit. You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, drug-related, religious, political material including any other material that may violate any laws be they of your country, the country where the EcoCityCraft Server is hosted or any International Laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with immediate notification of your Internet Service Provider, as well as local law enforcement if deemed required by us or by the law. We do and will take immediate action if necessary in accordance with local/international laws. EcoCityCraft does not guarantee a problem free gaming experience of Minecraft Multiplayer due to its nature. This game is constantly being updated and in no ways is EcoCityCraft liable for damages or losses to players, in-game-money, items, buildings, etc. when unforeseen situations arise. EcoCityCraft clears out user files if the user has not logged on for over 2 weeks. The only losses due to this include the users last log-out location, inventory on a user at the time of last log-out, armor, and enderchest belongings. Nothing else is effected and all in-game money, ranks, donations, etc will still be available after many months of inactivity. It is the end-user’s responsibility to protect his/her things to the best of their abilities whilst playing on our server. You agree to have read the EcoCityCraft global forum topics fully including any other rules that need to be put across relating to your current activity. You agree that EcoCityCraft can change any information at any given time, without your immediate knowledge of it. This includes information outlined in this agreement, rules outlined relating to any part of the server/forum, prices of the economy relating to any part of it, including any other information that may need to be changed. This agreement pertains to all users of this server/forum as well as those before this agreement may have been written. As much as I want this to happen, well see the red part.