[Suggestion] Rule change?

Runa.

This is, or should be, a perfectly mature debate.

And a flame war right now is not a good idea...

 

Ignore them. Ignore the message. The only thing that matters is your attitude.

 

I will not get into an argument with you runa. You were insulting ohmrskittykat.

Back on topic,
I think that even slip-ups should be warned for.

 

We might as well let anyone do anything. It doesn't matter if someone hacks in and crashes the server. Ignore them. The only thing that matters is if your not mad about it.

 

This is logically invalid; a far better response would be:

"Just because I was raised around drunks, gluttons, and other addicts doesn't mean I have to be one. In fact, people raised in such circumstances are often the people most against such activities."

 

Still pal, it was one sentence out of an entire post

But you have a good point.

 

Spoiler: Moof's Reply

"Just because everyone else does it doesn't mean you have to." Swearing is a part of the world's language now. With all the media and peer pressures, it can be difficult to go by that. Many people cannot control it. Many people do not even know it is bad due to how and where they were raised. Everyone has a different environments and different levels of control - they should not have to completely conform to others' lifestyles.

We do not people who swear left-and-right here (excluding spawn trolls, who usually get banned quick); the slip-up rule is still followed, and when it isn't someone gets a warning and they stop. When they do not stop, they end up leaving or getting themselves into trouble.

Your fourth (third shown in my shortened quote) paragraph seems to show that you don't know how a lot of the world is currently. It is most often the opposite of what you said - people raised under certain circumstances often "inherit" those habits, lifestyles, etc. It is a part of how they get raised; it is ingrained into their life and their mind. Sure, many may be against it all, but that does not mean that they do not do it themselves. You can do something and still be against it. And, unfortunately, as fun as Disney would be, our life is not Disney (I would love to have a dragon friend or faeries..).

Why should America be better than everyone else? Why should America be censoring everyone, even if they are not in America? That is not right, and that is why we are trying to find a balance of allowed slip-ups and non-allowed slip-ups. We are not proposing to allow swearing - we are proposing to allow select few slip-ups. And they are currently controlled; I do not understand why people imply they are not? The current issue is that not everyone is on the same page with moderating them, so some people may feel unfairly punished/warned at times.

I said at least half of; I am sure I could pick at two-thirds of it. As well, you have contradicted yourself here: You have said that people do not have to conform to the ways of other people - yourself as an example, I think? - yet here, you say that some things may effect people, but not others. This is what I have been trying to say. Things effect people in different ways, and everyone is different. We should not have to force people to follow one way, but rather allow for a little of all ways.

It is true that one swear could cause issues, but if a parent/guardian/older sibling teaches the kid that it is not right, most will learn. As well, many kids probably do not even know these new words are bad - it is simply a new word to them. Teach them as soon as you can, and you should not have many issues, as we only allow slip-ups (I only see a few serious swears every day for slip-ups, which is not much).

A lot longer than I planned... :/ As well, like you said - I am not trying to take personal jabs or anything. Hopefully people see my post(s) as friendly debate/discussion and not anything negative/mean.

 

Spoiler

Being that we have rules about swearing and you are proposing to not allow it whatsoever, it would be making people conform to something. As well, swearing is not inherently bad; people swear for emphasis on joy, as well as pain.

There have been studies and experiments (Mythbusters is one group) which have shown that swearing is much for "fulfilling" for letting out emotions. Swears are strong words and hold an impact. Those who swear tend to feel better/more settled emotionally and mentally (assuming it is within reason, and not normal vocab for pointless things). In extreme joy, sadness, anger, pain... That is, for those who already swear, it can help. Those who never swear, it may not affect the same way. And this all does "matter" (for lack of a better word) in typing: It shows others your emotions and how strong they may be.

Don't get me wrong; some people do use swears like it does not matter (it can be spotted pretty easy). But for many people, it is a way of showing just how strong they feel about something (getting a point across to someone), or helps them to feel better settled.


Even if we warned for slip-ups, people would still slip-up just as often. The only difference would be the server possibly going into a state of paranoia. "You sweared! You are going to get in serious trouble now. :S" "What!?" Everyone will be on edge, as we have more swearers than not.

Even if someone read the rules, they may still slip-up; why get punished for something you may not have realized right away? (Just look to the whole /sell all thing from yesterday.)

Allowing slip-ups - and soon not all, but only some - will help keep people at ease, rather than cause fear. Too many people swear regularly and out of habit to have a strict "no swearing" rule. As well, the swears are still there; not much would be visibly different for children.


I know you did not mean Disney as in faeries and dragons. :b I was being playful to hopefully lighten my post up from sounding all super-serious-meany-pants.


I agree that it does not make you better than anyone else, as that is not what I was trying to get across. And the server is located in America, but run by a Canadian. I believe it would fall under American morals/laws/ways. However, Canada is a part of North America, so it really depends on how you want to categorize it all...

This is, though, still the Internet. Despite where the server is located, we are a place that hosts people from around the world without passports, money, and civilian-ship. (The other part of this is found towards the top of my post..oops.)


And again, I agree that a little of everything is not always good (some of what you listed). However, with something so universal that has more base on how someone is raised and their environment, there should be a little leniency so everyone can get along and not live in any kind of fear or exclusion.


Some parents are uncomfortable with it, but most who do not allow swearing already raise their kids in a way that lets the kid know when something is disapproved of in their language. And if someone's kid is on Minecraft without parental guidance, they often have access to a lot of the Internet, and games that are not even censored (CoD, lol). ECC is one of the most censored places there is for games/servers, and many places on the Internet.

I think, as has been stated already, that a very short list of a few slip-ups should be allowed. However, I actually do not agree with some of what Jets mentioned.... (Mostly the first he suggested, despite that being one of the ones I use most commonly.)

As well, it all needs to be ironed out and more detailed (which the Staff will be discussing) on how to handle it all. Because swearing is so... "fluid" (?), some scenarios may need to be lined out. Slip-ups could use a better definition. Maybe a rough timeframe to guesstimate by, watch more what users try to get around (those users should remember the no-loophole/bending rule, though), what is actually a slip-up and not trying to be hidden, etc.

So even for those who disagree with swearing completely, seeing solutions you can come up with for the current rule can still help us iron things out and get things running smoother.

 

GEE GEE

 

shut up little kid.

 

I'm glad staff is talking about this but also Moofink...

Unless one of us stops this, this debate will go on and on and on...

You replying to me, me replying back...

 

Here is an excerpt from moofin's post:

The red phrases is something that is relevant to my point and possibly other's. It's quite simple actually: If you, as moderators, as authorities of everyone on the server, teach them that is is not right, most will learn. And if we teach them from builder, or sooner than later maybe they won't do it anymore. Really, Moofin, if builders see higher ranks swearing at all they may start to believe that you may swear on the server. Let's face it, the majority of builders will never read the rules. I don't see how saying "Watch the language" is so bad. Just say that and keep doing what mods are doing and this server will be fine..

 

Back and forth is fine. You two are not allowing this to escalate. Since neither of you are likely to actually convince the other, you'll just keep going back and forth until you quit or Andrew makes a decision. As long as you keep it rational, you're providing points for Andrew and the staff to take into consideration.

 

I suppose that makes sense (a lot actually)

I think we will hammer out some finer points in the process though.

 

And I'll be there, suggesting alternatives to everyone's logical fallacies when I can.

 

Lelwot? Oh boohoo a kid will see it. That doesn't mean they will start saying it. They will hear it more in the real world and shouldn't be blocked out by all curse words. When I started hearing people say curse words (about 7-8) I didn't go around and start saying them, I have self-control. So if you don't want to see a curse word, simply ignore it and grow up.
All said and done, +1.

 

Double post..

 

People should have the self-control to not say these things. And little kids tend to do things older kids do. It's what they do.