[Suggestion] Rule Change

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by knears2000, Nov 13, 2014.

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  1. knears2000

    knears2000 Builder
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    How in hells name was it relevant? You're speaking about words hurting people, which isn't even close to what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that the cursing rules on the forums should be the same as the ones in place in-game. I don't know where the hell you're coming up with the idea that "words hurting people" is even close to that.
     
  2. RaginDevonian

    RaginDevonian Pro Pokemon Player
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    The rule is in place because people find these said words offensive. So yes, it is all relevant
     
    #82 RaginDevonian, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  3. knears2000

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    Well shit, I'm sorry! I can say "shit" in-game twice without warning but the second I say it on a thread it gets edited by a moderator. That doesn't make much sense. As well, if you're going to make a post relevant, try to make it clear as to what you're trying to say, instead of putting a bunch of random words into a sentence. This will actually formulate an argument.
     
  4. RaginDevonian

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    Why would I even care to argue with someone blinded by anger and constantly swearing? This is no argument its you yelling and whining.
    *unwatch thread*
     
  5. knears2000

    knears2000 Builder
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    Actually, no. I felt as if my rights were violated so I made this suggestion. You clearly haven't read this thread because @kukelekuuk00 made some extremely good points. As well, I'm not whining, nor crying, nor blinded by anger. If someone would actually give me good reasons, unlike you who is just telling me that I'm being a "little bitch", I will seriously consider asking this thread to be locked. Thus far, nothing has been brought to the table that actually has factual evidence to it.
     
  6. AgentHare

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    What rights lol.
     
  7. knears2000

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    The rules? Those are my rights, lol
     
  8. silencedterror

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    The moment you agree with the rules of ECC you give up whatever rights you have IRL while on the forums or in-game. If you are not happy with that you are free to leave. I don't like it and I consider it just one of the cons but there are still more pros so I will take it for a while longer if things don't get worse. Did I mention that mods can also read your PMs? That is another right out the window but you agreed to that when you joined the server so its up to you what you do next- leave for a more "liberal" server or stay and take it. One thing is certain those rules were here before me or you joined and I am sad to say they will not change no matter how hard people try to change them.
     
  9. MsMoofin

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    On the suggestion topic:
    In-game and forum rules should generally be equal. In this particular case, it shouldn't be equal, but it shouldn't be so harsh. When I see swearing/cussing/profanity edited out of posts, it is often by the sensitive Staff who do not like swearing and/or on the same users who swear too often or in a bad way. There needs to be no bias and it needs to be fair moderation, not unfair.

    Everything else (I've only read bits and pieces of the thread):
    I just spent time doing some research on profanity statistics (cussing/swearing/whatever you want to call it). I'm grouping and doing rough averages based on the multitudes of sources I found - by psychologists, researchers, people taking polls and surveys, etc.

    World-wide and in America, well over 50% of people (any age) swear 50-100 times a day, most days. Pre-teens and teens, in any environment except home, will swear - 47%-85% of them, and at least 30 times a day. In school, pre-teens and teens will swear up to 80 times within their group of friends. In order, f*ck, shit, b*tch, and ass are some of the most common for any age. Most pre-teens and teens who use regular profanities learn it from their parents and their peers, and then any media they are subjected to. Parents who moderate and control swearing in their households have the kids who use swears maturely and appropriately, and those who do not moderate and control swearing in their household often have the kids who swear freely and "too much." Those who have parents against swearing often grew up with a generation highly against it and who never went with the changing language. Language - as said by psychologists and people who specialize in languages and words - naturally evolves, and at the moment language with swears has evolved to be less "bad" and more "neutral" and "normal." There have also been studies proving that swearing reduces physical and emotional pain, especially in women. As well, studies with swearing in professional environments has shown that more than half of those who are employed will regularly swear while at work - whether to their co-workers, bosses, or friends, but rarely customers due to not knowing the customer's view on swearing. Swearing typically (and appropriately) is used (especially by pre-teens and teens) as a filler word to express emotions that are hard to describe, and also to have emphasis to show that someone is being serious in some type of emotion.

    That is just a bunch of random facts from a crap ton of sources (most being done by psychologists and researchers)... Overall, as far as I can see from this research sessions (because I've spent hours in the past researching it, too), swearing/cussing and profanities are extremely common and their bad stigma has significantly decreased. The majority of people find no issue with it, and the majority know how to use it in moderation and appropriately. Inappropriate use tends to be targeted at and against someone, meant to put them down or insult them, as well as spewing out tons and tons unnecessarily. Swears used to express emotions, ideas, concepts, and thoughts are appropriate use, when used in moderation.

    Also, it is not our job to parent and baby the users. That is the parent's job. As many statistics have shown, people learn their swears and swearing habits from their parents first and foremost - media (that includes games) is the least influential when it comes to swearing vocabulary and habits.
     
    #89 MsMoofin, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  10. silencedterror

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    100% agree especially with this part! The truth is most of the people on this server are just too young and/or stubborn to see logic and scientific evidence. I admire your effort to compile the data from the research that you made but I think its just wasted on most of the people on ECC (at least most of them that are on this post).
     
  11. Dewsy92

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    Here's my thinking.. the rule for in game is as follow:
    • Occasional mild to moderate vulgarities that are not directed at anyone (such as "slip-ups" or saying them in the incorrect chat by accident), self-censorship of a swear word or abbreviations that may imply a swear word (ie. WTF?) are allowed unless it is directed at another user.
    A slip-up could be a wrong chat, or for example in the heat of the moment when you throw your Eff 7 into lava and say 'Oh sh*t.. ' in chat. Now on the forums both of those shouldn't happen. You don't 'wc' on the forums and for the most part you don't resort to the forums to immediately rant. Posts are, generally speaking, more thought out that than messages in game. So in that sense, there may be a argument behind the forums and ingame chat having slightly different rules.


    My opinion on being strict vs lenient towards swearing is as follows. Whether you agree with it or not, the bottom line is that there are some people who get offended by swearing. Yes swearing may be increasingly commonplace, but there are still people who will be offended. Cultures are different, people are brought up differently etc. On the flip of that, you don't need to swear. Yes, you can put emphasis on something using swear words, but it isn't necessary. There are other ways of emphasising your point/emotions that can be as effective. So in my mind it is a case of something which will offend at least some proportion of the player base versus something which in my mind isn't necessary. In which case, it clearly falls down on one side for me.

    For the record, I don't get offended at all by swearing. BUT I recognise when it is ok to use such words.


    Oh, and please don't say something like 'I have a right to say whatever I want/use swear words' because that isn't the case. I am willing to have a sensible discussion about this, but lets not resort to silly comments, insulting other countries/players etc.
     
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  12. knears2000

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    First and foremost, not once did I ever say that I can "use what ever swear words whenever I want". There is to some degree a barrier. For example, I can't randomly, or intentionally say "fuck" on the forums. That's just not right, however, I should be able to use other words for emphasis and such without a mod edit or a warning.
    It truly doesn't matter what happens either in-game or on the forums. If I can say that in-game but not the forums it makes no sense. Why? Because you have to hit "Enter" for both of them. It doesn't matter if it is in-game or on the forums, because you have to consciously hit enter to respond to either chat system. That's why this makes no sense.
    This is a very good point. Why can I not use the same language that I can use in-game, even though the forums get less activity then the server itself. It makes no sense whatsoever.
     
    #92 knears2000, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  13. Dewsy92

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    Why, when there has been over 5 pages of posts, you presume that I was talking to you I'm not sure. You are very defensive and quick to jump on people.

    Well I have tried to give you a possible reason why it may be different, but rather than explain why you disagree with my reason you have just restated what you've said before.
     
  14. knears2000

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    I did, when I jumped to the other page to grab a quote it deleted what I was trying to say, it should be updated now. As well, I'm assuming that you're talking to me because I specifically talked of that.
     
  15. Dewsy92

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    I have a question for you. Forget how you think people should react and how commonplace it is.

    Do you think that some people/someone on ECC may be offended by swearing?
     
    #95 Dewsy92, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
  16. block_crusher

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    I understand your point Knears, but Dewsy makes some good points. We must remember that this is a family friendly server.
     
  17. ajp79

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    Wow... Several suggestions on how to improve the server experience fade away without any real thought.. Somehow this waste of time suggestion regarding ones ability to swear grows to 5 pages in no time at all.

    And we wonder why the server continues to drop in popularity.

    I say staff has bigger things to deal with.
     
  18. Vintage_Gamer

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    Wow...

    This is such an amazing point.
     
  19. knears2000

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    There will be some without a doubt, but you have to remember, this is the internet.
    Same idea, nothing on the internet truly is "family friendly" because anyone can post anything on the internet. Yes, there needs to be some degree of silencing vulgarity, but you cannot take it away as a whole.
    I don't understand how this blew up as well.
     
  20. Dewsy92

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    So if we start from the position that swearing risks offending some of the playerbase. There needs to be a compelling reason why swearing should be allowed more freely in order to outweigh the risk of offending those people mentioned. So far, no one has convinced me why we should allow it more freely on the forums. Saying that it is everywhere on the forums isn't a reason which outweighs risking offended some people - it is simply telling those people who are offended to deal with it. That is not a reason to allow players to do something which offends some one.

    As it stands, I am firmly on the side of being more cautious and minimising the risk of offending people. As I said above, I personally don't get offended. Our rules however, should limit all risks of people getting offending unless there is a compelling reason to do so. It is a balancing exercise. If someone can present an argument which outweighs risking offended people, then I will be more than happy to amend the rule. In my opinion though, the fact that people want to swear to convey an emotion that they could convey without swearing or because they swear around their friends etc, are not sufficient enough.
     
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    #100 Dewsy92, Nov 16, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2014
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