Yes we were always builders, and I for one read that tutorial atleast three times and always referred back to the wall showing different chats. I said about five words in global and I didn't benefit from it at all, if global was banned for me as a builder I would have been fine with it. If anything, wouldn't this motivate builders to earn the 15k to get resident so they can talk? I bet more builders quit because they can't earn money or they don't know how, then how many would quit because they can't talk in global.
You don't want to give builders the power to make trade signs... I can already see them placing signs all over the place! And I'm not sure why you're against them so much.
I definitely disagree with this. I mean, even the simple idea of it kind of puts a bitter taste in my mouth. I know that personally when I joined, I asked multiple things in Global to help me on my way into ECC. I really don't see what you're getting at by saying Builders aren't productive in chat, and only spam and cuss. I watch Builders all the time ask questions in Global. And who says they have to be funny and cracking jokes? That's really not what global is about. Another thing is; there's a lot of new Builders who in addition to being new to ECC, are new to minecraft in general. Not everyone know how to PM, what Moderators are and do, or how to use the forums. Global is the main source of information for these players. What kind of impression would we be giving if new players couldn't even talk for god sake. To sum it up, Builders really do need to feel included, throwing them to the Wolves and cutting them off almost entirely is just wrong. The social aspect of ECC is one of the key factors of the server that makes it unique, and taking that away from the future of ECC will be extremely damaging to the community as a whole.
There was a suggestion to make this that was implemented over a year and a half ago. When I was a builder it was put in for a day or two. It did not only cause havoc with builders in local chat but they tried to use this old channel that wasn't claimed beyond the new town updates called /ch helpme. The fact that so many people were complaining is why it wasn't implemented for long. The whole reason that it turned back is that in reality it does nothing positive. Anything that the builder's spam or say is stopped by the mods. That is the reason why we have mods. Builder's are restricted enough and when that no-builder global was there for the time that it was (back in January or February 2012) I was a builder and the server did not seem so welcoming. It was actually pretty abandoning to the builders because what I felt back then seeing everybody saying "yay no more builders in chat" was pretty unwanted. That is my whole stance on this "No builder global".
Sorry but I don't see this anywhere near to being a good idea. Do you know why people decide to play Multiplayer servers? It's because they want to play the same game, but in a completely different way, being the sole thing that differentiates them the fact that you caninteract with other players. By taking away Global, the ultimate mean of public communication the server offers, you're restricting the way they can interact, play and meet with new people. As a builder nothing was more frustrating to me than constantly seeing the "Nobody hears you." message whenever I tried to say something to the rest of players, wether it was a joke or a question; at the time I was unaware of how Channels worked, and thought I needed to acquire or buy something that would have let me communicate with others, which was something that really bugged me. Now that I look back at my ignorance I feel silly, but at least I know it is my fault for not knowing and not having sought a solution; and not that it was actually the server itself the one preventing me from Being a part of the community. I understand your point of view about the 'Bad' builders cursing/spamming in chat, but let them be, as they will face the punishment they deserve for such actions; but there's no point in generalizing all Builders and assuming they will all act like this. What about the ones that are actually looking for help? What about the ones that are seriously looking for a server to hang out with and meet new friends? By forbidding them the use of Global all we do is resemble an uninviting closed door, with people who are not willing to help new ones getting started unless they can struggle their way to a higher rank. There's also other things to look at, if we closed access to Global, we'd subsequently have to restrict access to the rest of Server-Wide Public Channels aswell; because if Builders want to talk to everyone, they'll find a way to; And I am more than sure this would end up being significantly more irritating than the Global Spam/Cursing you are talking about. This can't be done because a new player without Trade and Auction simply wouldn't be able to find the resources to be able to gather money and rank up, or the degree of difficulty would discourage them to keep playing, not to mention their interaction with other people will be minimal to begin with...
Maybe my experience as a builder was different, because this all stems from me being a builder, using the tutorial religiously, and never using global. I can see how this may not be a good idea. I started this thread because every time is posted something about it, people always agreed, I guess my experience as a builder was just different from others (No. I am not trying to claim I was better at this game the any of you were I'm just saying I didn't use global too much) And also quefueve, there really isn't too much punishment, if a builder says something totally outrageous then yes they will be banned but for the most part it's a few warnings or maybe one kick and they rejoin. BUT what is a permanent thing is the opinions of others that the builders face. This is another reason I made this thread.
I'm not against them at all... What I was saying was lets set up a scenario: Global is denied for builders Trade signs are allowed for builders I them make a suggestion for blocking trade signs for builders It is immediately shunned/praised One side says yes deny trade signs, they are often used to troll town mayors and such. The other say no "as a builder I used trade signs to sell y, mining stuff and that's how I got resident" Either way it works, people will always disagree.
Trade signs are a privilege awarded for being a Resident. They aren't denied to stop trolling. Global is not a privilege, its a right. You have the right to be able to ask questions in the global world. You have a right to ask for a mods help or just help in general. If a builder was restricted to just local/trade/auc then they would spam trade and auction or local. If they just spam local, they will never get anywhere because no one is around to hear them. If they spam auc/trade they will get in trouble because they can't ask those questions in global but they certainly can't use trade/auc for questions. The system we currently have works. There is no reason to change it especially not to something as detrimental as this.
Ok well maybe /censor to block there rude because I see where the complaint is coming from. They spam/swear/racism in chat. Even if they don't know the rules a sponge can figure it out. Im not saying just small swear words Maybe /ignore builder it ignores the rank and we can make it for each rank to make it fair And staff are blocked from the command. I would defiantly use the /ignore <rank> command
But how many mods are at spawn at one time? Atleast one. And I think builders could ask questions then, or maybe have a /ch q (question) for builders.
A lot of builders leave after a short period of time. Now imagine builders making tradesigns and then quitting. Tradesigns everywhere and you can't simply remove them, only andrew/sky can do that. For every single builder who misbehaves in chat, there are at least 20 other builders who decide to either be silent or chat. Why would we deny the people who just want to chat from actually doing so? It's not about questions, it's about community. Pushing builders out of global chat can be done in 2 ways 1, disable them from seeing and chatting in it. 2, disabled them from chatting but allow them to see it, The problem with 1 is, they won't even know there's a global chat. Which leads them to believe there is no real community on here, which in turns makes them leave. We don't want people to leave, we want them to continue playing on ECC. The problem with 2 is, they can see the chat, but they are denied from chatting in it. And to be able to chat in it they would have to get resident first, which is a couple of hours of work. I know from personal experience that not being able to participate in a global chat when you first join the server is the most frustrating thing, I literally quit immediately because it wouldn't let me. As for the tutorial part of the suggestion, this doesn't actually do anything except frustrate new players. Imagine having to walk through that lengthy tutorial just to chat with people. And you have to read it all, too. It's already frustrating enough not being able to chat immediately, but forcing someone to read our large tutorial area is silly. We should only give them the option to do it, but usually those who know how to switch to global chat already know 80% of what the tutorial area says. Also, @ you saying builders don't talk in global chat.. http://i.imgur.com/UPEGIWe.png I beg to differ. Builders are actually very active in global chat, I see them very often. Basically, placing more limitations on builders will only result in negative effects. Frustrated builders is not what we want, EVERYONE starts out a as a builder, if all of us were forced to read the tutorial or rank up before we could use global chat then I our community would be less than half of the size it is now. We don't want that. We want people to enjoy themselves, which people are able to now from the moment they join this server. We give them the option to go through the tutorial, we have help commands that tell them what they can do and we have a fairly helpful community. People/mods at spawn usually help new builders. We have a great community as it is and builders aren't nearly as bad as you think. tl;dr: builders are people, t00. ~kukelekuuk00
Jackson, let me explain this to you. You seem a lot like me, not only in the starting of your ECC life, but also in your beliefs and thoughts on things. Let me explain this in a way you'd understand it. It took me a while to realize this but, no one really reads the tutorial. I'm sure you, and most of us, play those tiny little online games that people make. There's a lot of websites for them. I used to read the entire stinkin tutorial on those games, and by time I was playing level 1 I knew everything. I'd never done it differently. I can remember having a friend over once and I was showing him one of these games, he skipped the entire tutorial to play the first level without knowing a thing. Five minutes later he was asking me how to play, I was dumbfounded, there was a tutorial, why didn't you play that? I don't feel like explaining it to you if you can't read the tutorial. I'm also the same way with big games like Minecraft. When I first got MC on the xbox, the first thing I did was spend an hour or two reading on the wiki. You ask people "What was your first MC world like, dirt huts?" Not me, I had a wooden mansion on my first world, I even built it on an island so mobs couldn't get me, and i lit the whole place with torches. I had spent 2-3 hours reading the wiki first. Same with Terraria. I spent two hours reading the terraria wiki before I sat down on the xbox and played it. And I still played the tutorial in-game. I can't tell you how many times I just wanted to pull my hair out because my friend would ask me the silliest question, and I'd like "Literally, if you would take 5 mins to learn how to play the tutorial, you would know this." But I learned that, really, almost no one reads tutorials. When I first joined ECC, I spent the 45 mins, reading every single sign on through the tutorial. I got 3/4th of the way through reading all the donation features when I realized I wouldn't be buying any of them anytime soon, so I skipped the rest. I kinda assume your just like me in this manner. You would read all the tutorials, you'd even go study wiki's on things. But what I came to learn was, almost no one else ever does. If we all were like me and you, and we all spent an hour to read the tutorial fully, there would be no need to even think of casting builders out of global. But since most people would rather quit a game then play a tutorial, we have to allow them to use global. 99% is gonna learn while playing, rather then learn before playing. Yes I know, it seems insane to you and me, but it's just what people do... That, mainly, is the reason we can't block builders from chat. Global chat is the builders tutorial.
I really don't understand why people think I am suggesting allowing builders to use trade signs... I specifically said it was just a scenario. kukelekuuk00 Jason1964 revanrose6 personally I am still undecided about this subject, I just posted the suggestion because no one ever advised against it, but people gave positive feedback.
Well, if you have any questions for me personally, let me know, but, I feel I have fully stated my opinion.
Sorry OJ, but this is just mean. IMO, shutting builders out of global will not only let them feel rejected from the server more, it will also reduce the chance that that builder will get help finding a home or asking questions. Personally when I was a builder, nobody helped me at all. I didn't even know where the rules were til before I applied for resident, which was over 6 months of playing. Even though im not a moderator, I sill enjoy helping builders get new homes and make money so they get a better builder/ecc experience than I ever did. Basically my point is, as a lot of others mentioned, this will not let builders get any help. Plus, builders will have a hard time finding friends on ECC. Friends are one of the main things in the community that makes the server more fun. I will also mention that This is more like being "racist" without the race but in the rank from where builders get excluded from the community. This is more like extra information so.. You should not accuse builders of being different from other players who have a higher rank. Who knows? maybe that builder will 1 ticket a 2 mil lottery and go from builder to ecoleader in one day? I will always treat the community of ECC the same, no matter the rank. I conclude with Global chat should not be taken away from builders. -1 -Ori
I was under the impression that your suggestion was to keep builders out of global, not allow them to use trade signs.