This is being made a bigger issue than it should be... People should be able to decide upon late fees and loans at their own discretion, at what point do we start controlling the boundaries of every transaction that takes place? In cases where the lending party is demanding excessive late fees or stupid amounts of interest, let it be sorted through the complaints system. A perfect example of this was between ldw116 and NoahPvPz_. The excessive interest rate was quickly shot down, with NoahPvPz_ only expected to pay the loaned amount back. At most a cautionary rule stating that attempts to exploit other users through excessive interest rates or late fees, or through misleading the other user as to the terms of the agreement, could result in the invalidation of the agreement.
Again, as I've said numerous times, the rules regarding predatory loans are arbitrary - We need consistent rules regarding them. This suggestion is suggesting to draw clear lines on what's considered a "predatory loan" and what's not. Nobody gets hurt, and there's absolutely no reason to oppose this unless you're a loan shark or opposed to regulation for some reason...
Just because they can do what older players can, doesn't they're not dense or can make well thought decisions for themselves all the time. Sure, they have the right to take out loans, but do you really expect young children or newer players to make well-thought decisions regarding loans and such?
I agree with your suggestion, but I also disagree because it really shouldn't be needed. People should have common sense, but unfortunately don't. They like to charge absurd interest rates. If it's actually needed then sure +1. However I hope staff can determine between a predatory loan and a regular loan.
Well yeah I agree in that sense. Some people cannot understand the interest (as I said) and some people also like to take advantage of these people. Like I said, I loan a lot, and 100% is more than reasonable. If you disagree then you must be charging insane interest rates, this will not affect my profit at ALL. But it will protect others, if you're charging above 100% interest you're crazy. So I'm not against this, it's just very unfortunate that it is practically required to protect new and young players from being exploited. tl;dr 100% of my income is from loans, after this suggestion my total estimate profit loss will be: $0. If you "lose" money from this suggestion being implemented then please... reconsider how you treat younger players lol...
Okay guys, let's take a step back and stay on topic. This suggestion is about predatory loaning, and whether the rules on it should be made more clear or not. As I've stated before, if we moderators feel that a loan is predatory in nature, intended to take advantage of a person, we will not uphold it. Having said that, there's nothing wrong for having a written guideline for loans somewhere, even if not in the rules (maybe a sticky somewhere?) So do I have to take an IQ test to be on the server? >.< Guys remember, this is minecraft. A game. A kids game for the most part. A lot of the members on here are younger and don't yet have economic independence from their parents. Having said that, yes I know this isn't real life and shouldn't be taken as seriously, but this is how a lot of them might learn about about monetary responsibility. After all, aren't games just simulations of what they will do in the future? (think of dress up and 'playing house') Spoiler: Oh yay more of Psych Nerd Imagine Okay guys, I'm letting Mod Imaginex step back a bit and letting Psych Major Imaginex come back up for a bit (well really tho mod imagine's always there in the background) According to the American Psychological Association, Intelligence is "intellectual functioning" and some parts of intelligence can be measured with an IQ test. Some parts. "These tests don’t measure all kinds of intelligence, however. For example, such tests can’t identify differences in social intelligence, the expertise people bring to their interactions with others" So which intelligence are we supposed to measure? And how? Also Pssst @UnitedStates2 if you edit your main post with some of the Q and A that have popped up people just reading this might understand a bit more :3 Anyways I think I'm going to step out of this suggestion for a bit. It's becoming a bit heated in here, and I don't really have time for all the drama (eww drama) (Also don't really want to step on anyone's toes ;-; )
On it. Anyway, thanks for your feedback imagine. I've personally found your feedback convincing (Might be a little biased here, as you are in support ) and I'm sure other players found it convincing as well.
-1 Again, staff currently handles these few truly "predatory" loans adequately. There is no need for greater restrictions than that. Their arbitration is enough. Legal under this proposed system. Tell me when it is predatory. 50k loaned. 100k in 4 weeks (basically a month. @UnitedStates2 suggestion should say 30 day period.) 50k loaned. 100k in 3 weeks (still reasonable to me) 50k loaned. 100k in 2 weeks (high interest, but is it enough to be predatory?) 50k loaned. 100k in 1 week 50k loaned. 100k in 1 day All fall within the guidelines. The suggestion doesn't remove any of the need for arbitration and will have little impact in that respect. PS I am actually curious to know when everyone thinks this would be "predatory". Feedback is appreciated.
Exactly why you should oppose encryption and allow your government to breach your right to privacy unless you have something to hide...
Again, as I've said numerous times, this is to draw a clear line on what's predatory or what's not. The current system is arbitrary, and we need more consistent enforcement of these rules. This doesn't hurt anyone, and I can't see any effects else than positive ones coming out from the implementation of this suggestion.
@UnitedStates2 When a borrower fails to pay on time and is confronted with the age old question, "Renegotiate or ban?", would these fees be subject to the same cap as late fees and stack with them, if they were to renegotiate? The point I am making is that it does not "draw a clear line." This new system will remain arbitrary. This restricts everyone, but "doesn't hurt anyone." PS Are you and I the last ones still on topic? EDIT Were none of those examples "predatory"?
Done (If that's what you're suggesting.) I don't think you understand what "arbitrary" means - We currently leave deciding what's predatory or not to staff discretion which is based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any system or reason - Thus arbitrary. What I'm suggesting is to make clear guidelines of what and what isn't allowed so players can be informed, and staff can enforce consistently. This won't be arbitrary. Anyway, as you are creating an entirely new agreement/loan for the renegotiation, it will be treated as such. Meaning late fees won't stack with them if they were to renegotiate.
I feel like I am just repeating myself, making a point you will never understand. I know what arbitrary means. According to you I can loan 50k with 100k due in 3 days. This is within the restrictions you propose to impose. This is not "predatory" and will require no arbitration at the discretion of staff? What I am saying is that your "clear guidelines" don't hold up to scrutiny. Staff arbitration will always be necessary.
@Nicit6 He changed the suggestion based on your opinion. Perhaps he will listen to you again. Would you read through some of my posts? I am sure you will see the point I am making.
Well, of course we do need staff oversight in lots of cases, however, I'm suggesting to draw clear lines. And yes, that loan is completely legal and will be enforced. I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Of course we can't rely on rules alone, I know. But it doesn't hurt to draw clear lines.
@UnitedStates2 50k loaned. 100k due in 1 hour. By your logic this is also "completely legal and will be enforced"? What I am asking is will these "clear" lines protect any more than staff discretion and the rules currently protect? If any, too few to justify unnecessary regulation.
Hmm, you do have a point here. I'll be adding another rule - 25k/day interest limit along with the 100%/month interest limit. If you exceed any of these, the 100% interest limit will be enforced. After looking around at the contracts section, I am yet to see a loan that exceeds any of these amounts.
What if I legitimatly want a 50k loan with 100k due in 1 hour (or 100k due same day cause thats more likely to happen). *Edit* Im being completely serious here by the way. I dont see 50k loan with 100k due the same day as that crazy. Someone could really need something during the day and take a 50k loan to get it.
