Denied Star Crates

@JamieSinn Not sure if you remember, but I could've sworn that ECC was and still is branded with hard-core economy? So, are you just disregarding that now?
More star tools also lower star tool rentals too.

I agree

Its not killing it anymore, it's already dead lmao.

Pay.To.Win. No offence, but do you err even realise what you just said?

Wtf, isn't that the point????? Star tools are items that symbolise wealth, determination and perseverance. New players aren't supposed to get star tools easy like that. Don't you get it lol?

+1 @jwpwns you are the smartest man alive.

 

Jamie, also, have you even realised that 29 people want star crates gone? Have you realised how many potatos you're getting on your posts?

You said it yourself, you don't want the server to be pay2win. Yet, you clearly said that star crates exist to stop people from grinding:

Err what???
Idc that you have no influence, I still think your opinion is flat out stupid - that is my opinion of your opinion.
Most of the people on this thread keep on giving you valid reasons why star crates should be removed, yet you dont change your opinion or even consider the opposing points. You are entitled to do this, but err why.
You've been told the negative for star tool prices dropping - star tools are not prestigious or items of meaning anymore.
We need a learning curve. Hard. Core. Economy.

Don't call them star tools anymore then. Call them 'buythisgetrich tools' then lmao. There is a need for star tools to be idolized.

As Ryan said, you're fine with ripping tf out of players who've invested in star tools so you can bag an extra hundred dollars? They exist so that we can skip grinding right? That's pay2win. Jamie.. do you hear yourself? New players aren't supposed to compete with star tools, that's one of the points -_-


fml

 

Jeez man, you clearly missed that it was my personal opinion, and that I have zero control over features.
You clearly didn't care when exp was purchaseable and netherstars were in the Star shop for exp.
You can stop with the personal attacks thanks.

 

Star tools destroyed the economy from the start.. XP... Ores...enchanting... everything. All the crates did was compound an already established issue.

I’ve said it for over 2 years... if you want the experience and economic stability we saw in 2012-2013... star everything has to go. The is 0 risk on this server now.. you mine in peace... farm in peace.. with erepair. Basically nothing left to regulate the markets. Granted this can’t and never will happen.. I can still remember when we complained about “no pvp” and “erepair” lol. Now I would take that in a heart beat.

 

I didn't miss it, I acknowledged the fact that you have zero control. I just contested your opinion. Is that not allowed? I also have never bought nether stars with exp so erm lol.

 

You clearly don’t understand the concept of “ripping” people off or “pay2win” apparently. Jamie’s opinion is based on the impact the tools actually have which some will disagree with. However, it is his opinion and to some degree a valid one depending on how you look at it.

No one is ripping anyone off. You have a choice to buy the crates or not. Yes buying them does provide a potential advantage in some respect but not always... this isn’t a new concept as a lot of mainstream game devs are utilizing as a source of revenue, which is what Andrew is doing as well. Think of it more like “loot crates”. Some may consider this “pay2win” but that by definition makes irl money a requirement which here on ECC it is not and never will be to play and/or advance. I’m tired of Andrew getting dragged through the mud on this. He is offering you a free to play game that requires a lot of money on his end to produce. Yes for individuals like myself who do not have as much time as a 12 y old to dedicate to playing, there is an option to purchase advantages if I chose to. I am not forced nor do I feel I have to do it to improve my “experience”. What would be “pay2win” would be what other servers do which requires irl just to have an experience as I’m sure you may have come across. If not then quite frankly you have no idea what your talking about.

Try to be more respectful to the people that provide you with something free of charge and put way more time and energy into its operations than you could ever imagine. It’s easy to criticize something you know nothing about. Yes the server costs a lot of money to run... there has to be a revenue of some sort to keep it running smoothly. As well as some form of compensation (which most of us know is peanuts in the scheme of things) for the individuals who put in their own time FOR YOU.

 

It's perfectly allowed.

Attacking me, personally, and holding me responsible for things that I have no control over is not okay.

EXP has been in the shop since last year. You could purchase nether stars via exp at that same time. By extension, this is the same as the star crates, at a slightly decreased price too. Yet I see no complaints the way that this thread has attacked me since their creation.

The popularization of the star crates made people upset because of the market inflation for star tools only - which might I add, are STILL a player market, you cannot sell star tools to the server. (Though, I'll happily nuke them if requested) Players are selling for lower because of supply being higher, and wanting to liquidate stock faster.

I see no differences between the EXP/NStar system and the crates, except that the crates are cheaper (due to the possibility of getting an unwanted star item) - Here's why.

You can buy 100 nstars for 50k exp at the starshop right now.
Say you wanted an e7 pick. That's 2k nstars, or 1m exp.
In the shop, you can buy 640k EXP for $100. Let's assume you get one package of that, and one $60 package totalling $160.
That means that you have a guaranteed star tool of your pick (hehe, puns), for $160

Now, lets evaluate star crates - based off this thread here https://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/star-crates-star-keys.172634/ (huh, lets note that we again, reference the 50k/100nstars as our baseline, I wonder why?)

> eff7pick | 2,000 netherstars | $0.078125USD per 1 nstar unit | $156.25USD

$156.25, based on raw nstar cost. Now, you can't actually get that exact ratio due to the distributions of EXP. The closest purchase price is $100 + $60 package, or $160. ($4.75 over the raw price due to volume pricing)

1 star key, at $60 (1 cent, really?) gives you a chance at getting the star item of choice. (Let's assume you want the same star pick).
You have a 1/15 chance to get the specific item you want. Let's say it takes 15 star keys to finally get the item you want (working off the 3 pack @ $150) - you've spent $750 to get the specific tool you want.

Now, this is ignoring the player market where if you get an unwanted star item you can sell it, but since that's inconsistent, I'm ignoring it for now.

If you wanted to get a specific star item, guaranteed, you'd be better off buying EXP. Yet I don't see any outraged threads about it, since it's been here for close to a year.

 

I admit I laughed at this lol

I'm sorry that you feel attacked, but please realise I'm not holding you responsible.

 

This post completely changed my view of this whole thing. I recently came back and didn’t know you could get nstars for exp

 

To clarify I now see no issue with the star crates remaining

 

That is true, and honestly, in general, I think the same should happen with EXP in the shop (removed). However, there is one important difference between this. Not sure why, but people never really use the opportunity to buy exp (at least in significant amounts to sell). So I think the EXP in the shop could create the same problem, but since few people actually used this opportunity it doesn't affect the market much. Star creates, on the other hand, have been sold much more and that's a big difference.

The player market on EXP/Nstar has been unlogical the whole time since EXP/Nstar exchange was introduced. There have been many times where you could significantly (been 10%+ improvements sometimes) improve your profit by buying nether stars with exp. Then sold to a spawnshop, rather than selling exp to a spawnshop.

 

And I believe this is because of the nature of the "crates" in general.
CS:GO and other games with a "lottery" system that is based around "crates" created a hype that makes people go towards them instead of a mechanic like EXP.

But again, this isn't something that ECC created or caused by any stretch of the imagination

 

Are they, though? I've known many who have bought plenty in EXP from the store. Rather the perception that star crate purchases are widespread comes from the fact that such purchases are announced to the entire server online, whereas EXP purchases (or any other donation purchase for the matter) isn't. And then insofar that current star crate purchases are higher, that comes from the hype (newly released features will have far more frequent sales than older features) - which has been dying off, thus why we don't see nearly as many sales for star crates as we have before. (and then there's the gambling aspect that Jamie brought up - but that HURTS the case that star crates are killing the market, considering the low spawn rate for tools of actual value, such as eff7s and melon swords - only 2/15 with those two combined).

Regardless, will the star tool market die? Extremely unlikely. Star crate purchases are already far less frequent, and the price of valuable star tools seems to have stabilized at around 700k (which is still quite high historically - most of us are old enough to remember 750k eff7s in 2014, and many have been around to remember even 300k-400k star tools in 2013!). And then there's the contradictory logic of proponents of the suggestion when replying to Jamie's point about star crates helping poorer players; they claim that the star tool market will die, but when Jamie says that it might be good for the sake of poor/newer players, they then counter that the price will still stay high and won't fall enough to help newer players, thus defeating their earlier point about an inevitable death of market(s). Can only be either or, not both.

What about the nether stars? The market certainly won't die either, nor have been made obsolete. They still represent an alternative to purchasing star tools from other players/maintain the same nether star to tool exchange parity, and if demand falls low enough, the price will become attractive again and people will start buying from the server again, taking advantage of the low price. And if people will stop voting due to the current low price? The price will start rising and people will start voting again as it is lucrative enough for their time. Literally the same concepts of opportunity cost and upwards sloping supply curves/downwards sloping demand curves straight from the textbook.

And then there's the fact that we're assuming a rational market in the short-run - which anyone who's invested a penny in the stock market knows not to be the case. Investors tend to respond to panic sell-offs AND huge buying + volatility with selling/buying of their own, thus fueling said market downturn or boom. (One just has to look at the movements of the stock market of the past 2 weeks or so as an example of this - a jobs report released on Friday of the week before last week showed significant wage growth, implying that interest rates hikes to crack down on inflation might be closer than expected, thus sending the market into downturn that day - which might argue is irrational in itself/fears being overrated as productivity is growing and inflation remains low. Yet despite there being no particular reason for a downturn on the trading days after Friday, stocks continued to fall, largely due to panic from Friday's sell-off/surprise about unexpected volatility). And such a case may apply to the star tool market as well, despite being somewhat less liquid in theory than the stock market - Tool owners heard the news of star crates being introduced/players buying them, so they tried to sell as much as possible, sending the price to relative lows, which reinforced their fears about the market dying, thus leading to more sell-offs and so on. And such would imply that a large part of the fall in star tool values is temporary and prices may rise in the future (which seems especially possible given how the hype is over/sales have declined).

At the end of the day, servers cost money to run, and even more money to produce new content/to advertise. And given how fears of a dead star tool market are likely unfounded/just speculation, I'd be inclined to support the star crates with the knowledge that they'll allow the server to expand and grow the community (new friends! who doesn't like that?!), especially when the main objection to star crates is a few unhappy wealthy tool owners.

 

Firstly, regarding the popularity of buying exp from the store. There haven't been cases where they bought a significant amount and sold to an open market (spawnshop etc.) that I am aware of. Note that buying 600k exp and selling to the market should work out fine once, but do it once more and you might start seeing price changes (unless demand is high). The announcement doesn't really matter; what matters is how the demand vs supply in the market is. If supply is higher than demand, prices go down and opposite. And the star creates have created a high supply of star tools. There have been cases you could buy exp and sold it to spawnshops for higher rates than ECD/USD rates, and yet they sold features.

640k exp --> 1280 nether star ($100 USD)
3 Star Create --> 3 star tools ($150 USD), on avg between 1500 and 2000 nether stars each (feel free to do the actual math).
$100 USD --> 1280 nether stars
$100 USD --> 3000 nether stars (give or take some)

And as mentioned; people will buy star creates from time to time. Even it might be unlogical from a financial statement, so is lotto. It's true, that neither the nether star nor the star tool market will die. But giving an unlimited supply of anything "close" to market price is not good at all. Theirs's a reason the prices at blockshop is so high. But after seeing the arguments, I do agree removing them from sales might do the trick, or at least try so to start with.

 

I actually recall people complaining about this option as many blamed it on killing the nstar market as exp was still fairly cheap and easy to obtain compared to voting nstars at the time. Think there may even have been a suggestion to remove it

 

Please link.

 

https://ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/remove-the-exp-exchange-at-the-starshop.166377/

Only one i could find but suggests the thing @cdlawrence was talking about but got denied pretty quickly.

 

And I see no follow up suggestions/complaints as that post specifies.

 

I think we are slightly digressing from the original suggestion anyways.

But anyways

+1
Star crates shouldn't have really been introduced, but they have, and another area of the economy has gone poop.
Hopefully it can recover

But if 56 players can be bothered to come on the forum and vote against a feature that is currently on ecc.
Then it seriously needs looking into as that is probably more then the peak at any one time atm.

 

i dont see how being able to buy exp from server shop and turning it into nstars is the same as star crates. People buy star crates for the gamble. I dont recall exp being bought AS much as these star crates. Star crates HAVE the chance of you making a profit which is why people buy and try them. +1 remove them