these "bans" are invariably (way too) short lived and the scammer comes back to do it again and again
difference is a lot of scammers aren't permabanned so they can come back and do it again most scammers can't take solace in the fact that the thief that took their money will never come back which i think is the real problem
Yeah but you might find someone that you trust and if they don't follow though, they would be banned. The money in the banned player's account should go to someone - at least a simple giveaway
Well. I just saw this lovely post and figured I should toss in my two cents. As many people already know, I tend to write very long responses on things like this. That being said, bare with me. Returning scammed money. There are clearly positives to this. A lot of players would be rather happy. There would be no raging about 'I got scammed and now I'm out of X'. There would be a lot less animosity I would say. That being said, there are so many problems with this. And now I will illustrate to you what they are. After a quick scan of the forum, I can honestly say we get a lot of scams. Scamming is one of the most common crimes. So considering this, let me begin with the question of: What staff member would handle this? Now you might say Andrewkm. Lets be serious he has a lot on his plate. Next you might say the GameAdmins, but to be serious, we have a lot on our plate. Any rank below should not even be able to mess with other peoples balance. Right now even GA's can't take out a balance without using a preset reason. There is no /take 345,000 or whatever the scam was for. There is no CURRENT way for anyone except Andrew to do this. Now, lets assume Andrew decides to give GA's a way to do this. The fact of the matter is, that can be abused. I don't think any of our staff would abuse it, but, that can be and I don't think its safe to give out that much control over player's balances. Now, lets assume he gives it to the GA's or heck, even Andrewkm himself is doing this. Lets make a hypothetical. "Revan scams Dork (Sorry Dork, just grabbed your name) 250k. Revan then take the money, spends all of it. Revan buys iron from 10 different people. Now that money is spread out among 10 people. Revan's balance is now $0. Andrewkm then comes in and proceeds to return the money. He does /take Revan $250,000. Revan now has a balance of -$250,000. Then he does /pay Dork $250,000. Dork now has his money back." Everything is good now right? But wait. Theres more. Since I had already spent that money there is now an additional $250,000 in the economy then there was yesterday. Instead of me appealing, coming back, paying off the money properly and thus working to put the money in the economy, Andrew just spawned it in. You may not see it that way, but that is exactly what just happened in that hypothetical. Also, so my balance in that hypothetical is now -250k. Well for one, from what I understand negative balances caused a ton of problems previously. For instance, since your balance could go negative you could actually pay people money you didn't have. That all aside. Lets consider my negative balance and what that means. So, I then go and appeal. I do not have to pay anything off, because Andrew did it for me. So I come online and realize, "wow that is a lot of work before I can do anything ever again." I log off. I wait until my .dat has cleared, which considering that is way under the required amount to not be deleted, I would get deleted. I come back, "ooo look, my balance is at 0 now. I got no punishment. I worked for nothing. I lost nothing. I literally in that example, stole money without consequence. So, to recap. 1) It would cause the spawning of money. 2) It would remove the punishment of having to work to pay off the persons debt thus making it seem more profitable to scam. 3) As of right now, no staff who could possibly be trusted with that power would have the time to do this on every scam complaint. Revanrose6 Ps: I know that was long. I'm sorry. I hope it was coherent.
Great post Regan as usual My response: So let's make account resets a possible punishment Not worry about paybacks, negative balances, just account wipes. Like what happened with Pruneda. More of that kind of punishment would be a good deterrent imo
http://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/ban-appeal.80743/ 3 days not enough this overt purposeful scamming deserves longer harsher punishments make them find something else to do for a month
Can I just say to all who posted, THANK YOU! This thread has over 30 posts on topic that resulted from my 1! But that is not the reason of post. First off, I am glad to see the community come together on this topic. Now my thoughts on some of the posts I have read this evening. I'll start off with Calevmir You and I are looking at the situation the same way. Billybue24 Your post is the solution I was thinking of. But Nelsin makes a very good point when he talks on the point of Player B using the money he scammed from Player A to buy from other people. GoddessLaverna I see where you are going with your post, but no, I don't think a simple ban from ECC is enough. I like what dork1877 said. He also hinted towards the player that scams having his rank and account reset all the way back to builder, and I agreed with that. skittlesbanana jumped on the topic of being able to sue someone, like in the "HARDCORE economy server" that ECC is monkeyBUTT244 BLTwitch really dove head first into the suing option, and I enjoyed his post. lapkingkn posted on a % refund that I also agree with. dork1877 I agree with you. If AndrewKM doesn't do refund to "balance the economy" than it is BS. What difference would it make returning the money to the rightful owner? it isn't adding or removing ECD from the game, if in fact you catch the guy before he gives away/spends the ECD he scammed (which in this case happened.) kukelekuuk00 it seems your "male model"ing is getting in the way of your respect, and what you said was utterly rude and disrespectful so I kinda ignored most of your posts. revanrose6 As always your post was long, but I read every word, and enjoyed (and always do) reading your post. Thanks again to everyone who posted, and continue to post. I hope Andrew takes the "little time" he has, and uses it to read all your wonderful posts like I did. Have A Happy New Year! -HuntFishLive
I'm not rude and disrespectful, I'm trying to tell people that it's possible to prevent getting scammed and I even gave tips to minimize the damage in case you did get scammed .-.
This server (for better or for worse) holds a strong belief in the notion of caveat emptor The rules and the enforcement of those rules strongly puts the onus of responsibility on the individual to allow themselves to be manipulated in a negative fashion. They "punish" the "guilty" but they really expect the innocent to take responsibility for their choices in who and how they interact. The default position is "you were given the tools to know better. It's your fault for letting scammerX take all of your money for no reason because you didn't document it correctly."
Kuke wasn't calling anyone lazy. The way he used the word lazy was just a behavior. Compared to the people that do their homework and work harder to prevent losing their hard-earned money, the two users that got scammed were being lazy. (They were BEING lazy. I did not say that they were lazy people.) They could have looked for a better, more reliable buyer but instead chose a resident with 0 features (I believe). C'mon, you can't say that that wasn't a bad idea.
http://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/ban-apeal.80962/#post-394703 another three day useless ban such disappointment many sadness wow
Sad isn't it? He/She didn't even know what a counter reason was. How do we know he/she is gonna carry out with this "new me" deal. It's quite a shame.
What he just stated is that out of 100 scam cases, 99 of the people that were scammed were "TOO LAZY"
