I agree with you Moofink except that I believe that PermaBan actually means a permanent ban. I am unable to find the link, but believe it may have been Revan that stated that a short while back. I know for months that confused me more than anything else on this server - seeing perma-banned players appeal and come back. It was also frustrating to see these same players come back on and many times create even more havoc.

 

Alright, I found the post you were talking about AdmiralD which can be found here.

-RevanRose6

 

That link doesn't work. :/

 

Just fixed the hyperlink. If it doesn't work, refer to this: http://ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/ban-appeal-squidzillaz.97143/#post-491203

 

@Anokfero It's honestly easy to do "payment plans". If someone asks to do a payment plan just say "No thanks, but if you get a loan I will sell to you." Then they will be paying back someone else not you. I was recently on the buyer side of that. KOTD didn't want to do payment plan and I respected that. So I got a small loan then bought the feature from him. Already have the loan paid off. :) But I think they should do a credit type thing if a user gets permbanned for donation scamming. This would only apply to IRL money not ECD. It would be in form of a coupon code and the feature permission would be taken from the banned user.

 

Thank you for that @idkhowtoplay - that was an awesome find!

 

A few things: 1) How do we know the banned user did not pay ECD for the donation? Unless it was strictly for that reason that they are banned, we only have one side. This is VERY wrong in my eyes. This could lead to people "claiming" not being paid and transfering donations all over the place. If it is just a ban and not a perma-ban, then it is wrong to take the donation from them, as they could come back to pay it off as with any other temp-ban trade/loan situation.

Scenario: If a person who is permabanned then gives all their purchase codes to an existing player/friend who says they were never paid, any THEY were the one who bought the features... Imagine the depth this would go.

Honestly, of ANY trade type, if you are the one doing the first action and expecting compensation, then you should be under the understanding that you may be scammed with no compensation. Only do this if you are willing to lose what you are giving up.

The more I think about this, the less I can see the other side. I originally did see the other side, but this seems to be a clear case of common sense and knowing what you are doing. ECC staff can only put up so many "Watch out!", "Be Careful", "Don't feed the Tigers", "Don't open hatch mid-flight." warnings. [Rest of post redacted for civility. Sorry for the rant.]

 

I think it'd be easier to just have a function where it shows at payment that you're buying a donation feature, like a "gift" section where you can state who the donation is for and the fact you're paying for it. Searching for players trading through trade signs or making large payments isn't a clear definitive way to prove that you paid for it. Also to give staff a portion of the investigation fee would make more people want to join staff for the wrong reasons and use their title to make money rather than uphold the server rules. There is a clear conflict of interest when a player is paying a staff member to check logs that are easily modifiable. I think the only people who should be able to see those logs would be andrewkm and Revanrose6, and developers/etc. when necessary.

Anokfero, I don't think you're wrong to want to try and protect yourself fully as best you can. But I don't think the methods you've suggested so far are all that fair. The root of the issue is in how donations are done and how users trade them for ECD. Even if there were a "gift" section, that could be abused because a player could claim to be another player and then charge back the card later. Some players say that they're banned from buycraft (and other donation type mods) because of this, where a disgruntled player decided to attack them in such a way. The issue remains at proving who is who, and where the money is coming from.

 

@Anokfero - I understand exactly your frustration with what happened. I purchase between $1-200 a month features on average each month - some for myself, but now mostly for others. Why? - First, it is a way for me to support a server that I believe in and have fun playing on. I trust the owner and yet I realize that it could go *poof* tomorrow if that is his choice - a chance I take. Second, I feel that I am able to provide an option for players that have no way to donate for features for whatever reason. I never do payment plans for two simple facts - one - my goal has always been that I would try to not ever ban a user if at all possible so I don't put myself in that position (I have even considered giving up owning towns to help out builders because of having to file grief reports but there are so many more great ones).
Second, I buy donations for players that have earned what they are buying - it is hard for me to say no to some players I trust even, but feel very strongly about this. I require payments up front and I make that clear - I always recommend a contract and am always willing to work thru a moderator for anyone that requests that.
The server has so many stickies telling us how to conduct transactions I am surprised that after you being here for 2.5 years, you would not know the possibility of what could happen if you purchased a feature for a user on credit.
I reread the first post and feel that you were not put in this position, but actually put yourself in this position by conducting business in a manner that the server clearly warns us about.
The positive of all of this is that you have stated that you will no longer purchase donation features for people using any type of payment plan. I hope that everyone takes this stance.
As a side note, if a contract has to be written to loan someone money, don't loan it to them - consider it a gift. If you get it back, you have been blessed.

 

^^ That :p