Greetings, I originally had a 7+ paragraph post I was going to paste. But I have decided to keep it short (yes this is short compared to my original post). You want to stop the drama, rumors, and speculation? Release an official reason. You can still ban all the chat you want, but at least provide a reason. By not doing so, it causes more untrustworthiness, rumors, and speculation. By releasing the reason, you will quiet anyone who wants to know legitimately and isn't trying to cause chaos. If someone asks, just point them to the thread that has the reason and remind them to not talk about banned users. Anyone who has an issue after that can take it up privately. Even if it is for non-game related issues, say that: 'Non game related issues." The privacy issue (not revealing the reason due to privacy) I think is a stretch. How is a ban reason more private than my last log-in date, or how much money I have donated, or a host of other things. You could even include it in the rules: "If you are banned, your reason will be made public. Don't get banned." It is only natural to want to know. As soon as I 'found out', my first question was "why?" Not that I was trying to cause trouble, I just wanted to know. I understand the official stance is: We aren't going to talk about it, period. So the inquiries go underground and I only get one side. Truth? Lie? Somewhere in the middle? I have no idea. But it is all I have to go off of. Again, I understand this is by design. I am just not sure if it is the optimal way to deal with it.
I agree if we aren't told about this officially some people might misunderstand this and could turn into a rumor.
I too am open to leeway when talking about banned users but I simply see nowhere good coming of it? If the members are told why they were banned, so people will except it, and some people will not, and those who are not happy with the anwser they got will simply stay the way they currently are, making the situation just s bad if not worse. I dont see any reason why you feel the need or compelled to constantly talk about why members are bad simply to start to cause trouble. I am obviously here to help and some things I dont lik the way they have been dealt with, some things i understand, but that is life and i still get on with it at the end of the day, and try to be as open as i can (within my position, cause i am following the rules given to me) to the members of the community. What irks my nerves is when you have people within the chat who like the slander the staff team because of what has gone on in the past. We are Moderating to the rules we are given, you want us to not do our jobs and break the rules? Most of the staff team (I cant say all because I dont know what the staff members think) are trying to help you guys to the best we can
I don't think calling him/her "famous" is a good idea, It would make them feel proud of their actions when they got permanently banned for it.
First, I would like to say... (Also, if you delete my post without reading... You are doing exactly what I'm talking about. Good job. In fact, deleting it at all. Yes, I will cause more trouble. But, hey, I GIVE A SH*T AND CARE. You. Have. No. Idea.) And sorry for overrunning your thread with a long post. Mendi, why are you playing the role of a GameAdmin or ServerAdmin? You were doing it all Saturday, and all on this thread. Others have been saying you have been doing it elsewhere, too. Now, there is nothing wrong with being helpful. But a lot of your words, phrasing, and attitude come across as "my word is official and I am a major face of the server - I know what I am talking about, as if I was Andrew's second-hand." This is not right. It's one thing to help users - it's another to take the place of a higher rank who should be making either an official statement or official posts, who has spoken to Andrew directly and knows about Andrew's true reasons (which GA+ barely know; I've spoken with them). Also. You keep saying, over and over and over again, that the we - the community - need to be making suggestions to solve the problems (and that the community is the problem; not directly, but always implying it). However, you are constantly shutting everyone down, no matter what they say. How on EARTH is that helping ANYTHING? You are forcing us to run in circles simply to avoid the problems - in fact, you are contributing to the problem. We want to help, but you - and other Staff - are censoring us. Funny thing is, that's what this thread is suggesting in the long run... Saying Staff shouldn't be censoring us and finding ways to fix it, and to discuss the issues. Which you keep shutting down. Getting us, the community, nowhere. Your vocabulary also uses uncommon words that the average person will not understand, which is a great way to make communication worse. Please, at least, remember that there are 9-14 y/os - AND adults - who have not had the time or ability to gain a larger vocabulary. As for ban reason not being public... You (the Staff) are censoring a ban reason on the most well-known user, who has hundreds of connections and can provide the true and false ban reason(s) to pretty much everyone - in a CIVIL and NO DRAMATIC way. So, why the HECK are you guys censoring it? What is the point? All you are doing is making yourself look worse, as others have said. Suspicious. It's not a healthy thing to do for anyone. Same goes for any of the other 20+ users banned in the past couple of days. Most are very, very well known. Many are from 2011. Many shaped the community and made it healthy and good. So you take away the people who did the most, shove them in a coffin, and bury them in an exotic, faraway country with no documentation. Great, great way to help a community. Right? No. It's not. The people who helped the most are the people being hidden away, simply because there are issues from the recent past, present, and likely future. Many of them did nothing wrong. The only thing they did was decide to talk to the people who did wrong. How on EARTH is that a FAIR BAN? A FAIR REASON to hide them away? It's not fair, or right. You (Staff) keeping saying there are legitimate reasons for every single ban. Sure, the people who trolled got legitimate bans. Those who spammed. But the ones who "advertised" and got banned literally NEVER spoke of another server. Search the Internet. There. Is. No. Advertising. Of anything. No server even exists. Literally no server, so....lol. And the bans that keep having the excuse "there were warnings" - many did not have a warning. Sure, many others did. Those are fine. But the ones that didn't have reasons that are not accurate, simply to help calm the community. Which is good, in theory. In reality, it's not, because the truth is already everywhere. Why do you think the community is causing drama? Because they know right from wrong. Issues exist in Staff. Issues exist in the community because of Staff. Issues in Staff exist because of the community. Issues exist because issues exist. Simple as that. Period. People need to stop blaming the community. The community cannot, logical or realistically, be brainwashed. The community reacts with real emotions. They are not robots or hackers, they are not ALL trolls. They have good reason to be upset, because there are issues. If they are attacking Staff? Staff has issues. If Staff is censoring the community? The community has issues. I really do not understand why that is so hard to understand. I have been Staff. I have known Staff. I have been close to Andrew and seen him at his worse, and I know Andrew at his worse. I know what he is going through right now (literally and seriously, because I cared enough and was trusted enough). I have seen the server be healthy, I have seen it be ill. I have been around over 3.5 years, dedicated, keeping up to date. I have known far more than half of all Staff. I have seen Staff decline, come back, be healthy, decline again...rinse and repeat. Over and over. All of it. I know the rules, too. I know Staff discretion. I know right from wrong. I have been on the Internet for well over 8 years. I have seen that change and evolve, too. I have also been an owner, an admin, high-ranked Staff, and Staff on more servers and games than I can even count anymore. I've dealt with issues worse than ECC's right now, and fixed them. Even very, very similar issues. I've dealt with most types of people, problems, and communication. How things are being handled right now is wrong and will never work. There will only be continued distrust, distress, and destruction. I want ECC healthy. So do many people. I want the people healthy. The community. And especially the server. That will not happen with the communication that is currently present. And now I shall wait for my ban, which will be another that has a false reason and is done emotionally, by anyone. Because I am a part of the community, and the community is censored. And because I am associated with permabanned users, which also puts me in the boat for a permaban. I'm sorry that I actually GIVE A SH*T about the server and peoples health. I'm sorry that caring about the people and place I love is ban-worthy. But I feel as though I shouldn't be sorry. I shouldn't have to know, or fear, being banned, simply for speaking my mind. I shouldn't have to fear my post being deleted. For. Caring. About. PEOPLE. It's wrong and sick. That's my two-cents. From someone who actually gives a sh*t and wants ECC to be healthy, Kaitlyn
I can either write 'paragraphs of empty statements' and stay well within my purview as a moderator, or I can overstep my bounds and say things that would be expected from a higher ranked staff member. I am simply trying my best to conduct a discussion, without overstepping my bounds. Also, just because I am on the staff team does not mean that I cannot write on suggestions. Yes, my position does give me some power and authority. But, I don't believe I ever declared an official position for the staff. My goal for this thread is rather simple. I want to consolidate the opinions of the community, their concerns and worries, into one easily accessible place. This will benefit anyone that tries to make a suggestion for rule modification. It would allow them to use references to support their arguments. I could easily say "the community thinks that this is a problem," but without proof the claim would simply be conjecture.
My suggestion in the case of steps taken against players who break the server rules, should be a more transparent approach. By this I mean that staff who are empowered to take action against players do so in a structured, process defined manner. As suggested in an earlier comment, also supported by a thread posting presenting the facts which can be further supported by evidence and steps taken. These threads, much like the appeal threads are managed by staff, still keep the appeal threads seperate as per the current process, only with a reference link to the ban/warning thread. Does this add more administrative load on staff, yes. But it also provides what may be lacking and causing the community rumblings of late. Key here in MHO is transparency, with transparency the server will be seen as fair, reasonable, balanced in how it handles issues and open. Players are encouraged to take note of the rules, and should be generally aware of what actions are deemed acceptable on the server, so in the interest of transparency, those who overstep the limits defined by the rules of the server, whilst being aware of their actions, forfeit any right to confidentiality. As often their actions have already most likely disrupted or encroached on other players rights to dignity or access to a secure, safe server community environment. Banned players could be mentioned within the context of player interactions, by friends etc however the discussions related to actions taken against them, regardless of it being in defense or prosecution, should be only directed through defined, structured channels, otherwise they can easy snowball out of control either in the forums or the shout box. Ok, back to digging holes for me.
I agree with most of what you say, not all of it for sure, but this point here id like to point out. I would happily tell members the ban reason, but one i dont know the full extent of the reason, and if i just say whats on the ban, its not going to explain anything cause you can only write a sentence. We are just doing our jobs. If you were in our position and the rules state that you cant share ban reasons, you wouldnt tell people (even though you will in this topic to try and be awkward) but you dont. If your told something by your boss at work and told not to tell anyone, then someone asks you about it, you dont just tell them do you? and if you do then you probably wont have a job for long lol. The system is flawed, Do i see a suggestion amending the rules in the suggestions thread? No, do i see lots of people insulting and disrespecting staff? Yes, am i making any headway here? Both parties are in the wrong the way we are going about things and it needs to change...
Are you quoting that other post that got deleted? Not sure why it was deleted. It's more censorship. Proving my point even more. I've been told that Staff are just supposed to warn and ignore, unless it actually breaks a rule. But okay. Banning the account is fine, but deleting the post... Whether that is true or not, you have been overstepping. You have been taking the lead almost every time the issues pop up. Now, this is partially because other Staff are afraid, actually know their rank, or are busy elsewhere. Considering the drop in Staff that continues, I'm guessing Staff are agreeing less and less with Staff and more with the users. Or simply don't want to be a part of the drama, or make a figurehead of themselves (like you are, which is why people keep hating on you). Generally, blue Mods don't have the respect to be taking the lead. That is how it is everywhere. Gain respect before taking the lead. (You are still using “fancy” words, so I'm having trouble believing you fully read my post or the post that was deleted.) When on earth did I say you cannot write suggestions? Nowhere in my post did I say Staff were disallowed from writing suggestions. I honestly am confused on how you got to that conclusion. And yes, obviously being a Moderator gives some authority. But it is not being used in a way that people will like, appreciate, or listen to. And yes, you never declared a position, that's fine. I never said you did. I said that others did, because of the way you are going about the issues. If you want to “consolidate the opinions of the community,” it would greatly help if you were not shutting people down by either starting and argument or jumping to defend Staff and all the decisions that have been made recently. That isn't “consolidating” anything, and is simply causing more problems. To consolidate, let people post and actually speak their mind, rather than be censored. Watch people talk. If someone gets out of hand by actually breaking a forum rule, do the NORMAL punishments or warnings. As well, in order to help consolidate, try talking through the suggestions, rather than defending Staff or saying nothing has been done wrong in the past few days. No one in this thread has seriously caused any issues (other than me, when higher Staff see and want me banned). So I'm really not sure why you keep shutting people down. Also, it is not a rule modification in the big scheme of things. It is a suggestion on attitude and administration, with the main focus being on chat. At least, that is how people are making it, so that is what it is in the end... Whether as an example or not, the community clearly thinks that all of this is a problem. Considering the fact that there is even this THREAD... It's a problem. People rating my post “Winner” think it is a problem (and it is still continuing to happen as people wake up and get online). People who haven't played ECC in two years have even been agreeing, because they can actually see problems. So Staff is either blind, afraid, believing in the wrong “facts,” or going about calming people down in the wrong way. No one likes problems, but problems cannot be solved when the people trying to fix them are being banned and censored. Those who are speaking up are quite brave. Most of your post is what the Staff forum section tells Staff to do. There are threads defining “right” from “wrong,” a general punishment or warning to give, to let everyone have a chance at speaking, and to keep the process clean and structured. (And most people know this. It's no secret.) It is not a foreign concept, as it is in the Staff guidelines and rules... It is a matter of that actually following their own guidelines and rules. “Staff discretion” is a horrible excuse to pull, by the way (@ any Staff). There are reasons that the community has discussed removing it or limiting it before. However, I agree with the last part of your post. Correct me if I am wrong in understanding, but banned players should be discussable so long as chat is being civil about it and there is no drama coming from it. (Which is funny, because someone who wanted to honor Ike in-game on Saturday was kicked – no warning – for mentioning his name (the first time), wanting to only honor him. That should never happen, as that first time caused the drama.) It is fine to not know the full reason and choose not to tell people. That is actually intelligent. I was mainly talking about the Staff who 110% agree with the ban reasons, believe them and their moderating to be true and pure, and constantly shut people down over it. Ignoring is the best option, and not telling anyone the reason by silence, or “we have not had an official statement that lines up with what users are being told is true.” Anything other than shutting people down and simply banning for mentioning a name. Many people asked on Saturday out of PURE curiosity and NOT wanting drama, logging in after the warnings. They got warned and banned anyway, because some Staff so were adamant on the ban reasons being fine or being a huge drama-causer (because they stated the reason). I know you are doing your jobs. That's very clear. And I have been in your position. I would simply do as I suggested above – ignore the users, or say nothing has been official due to the uproar of people saying otherwise. I would handle it intelligently rather than emotionally, as Staff should be doing right now. They are going off of assumptions and jumping the gun with everything. Nothing can be solved out of stress and emotion. People are not making suggests because they are absolutely TERRIFIED of being banned. If you haven't noticed, the majority of people who even make a sad face during the stressful moments are getting banned because they “disagree with Staff” or “fuel the fire.” People are utterly terrified of speaking right now. Those who are have either given up being quiet, or truly want a change (latter being brave). Some are simply extroverts or fearless (probably less common). I'm sure if people were not terrified, they would be making calm, civil suggestions. But they are afraid, so I am doubting that will ever happen. And nothing, at this point, will make people less afraid. Both parties have issues. But the community cannot help fix the issue until Staff takes the first step. Don't censor people. Don't shut people down. Don't threaten people. Don't kick people or delete posts because they didn't “see the warning.” (Many truly have not. There is no official statement. Stop assuming everyone is all-knowing.) Don't ban people for disagreeing. Don't ban people for having an opinion. It Starts with Staff. Staff has to be the first one to take a step in the right direction. That is their job, after all. I honestly do not see that happening any time soon. Nor does most of the community. Even if there are a couple good people still left on Staff, they are mostly terrified or do not want drama. Understandable. But a few good people is barely any of the Staff. Staff has potential to do right, but they keep going backward. Staff is the base support for the server, but they are doing the opposite of supporting.
Just a note. I was banned (and now unbanned) with no warnings. EDIT: I do apologize for the way I treated you, it was unjust, but given the circumstances...
I know some of the things are unjust but as a staff member who would just ignore people who ask, you think that would make the situation better? Stff members who just blank people with questions? Thats almost worse lol, I understand people are frightened to speak up and make a suggestion, but i have also seen a few of these members who have been banned recently appeal and are back on the server. Maybe a moment of madness is what causes a ban and then relooked at if the member justs to come back, or messages Andrew and discusses this, will probably be able to come back... Until we as staff get the thumbs up on what we can say or cant, then at the moment we cant say anything regarding it. We are all members just like you guys and are simply doing our jobs, we arent looking down on you or thinking that you shouldn't know, again im sorry i cant help out and im trying to find some middle ground with both parties but you or i arent going to find it straight away. I shrunk your quote to my reply didnt look like a text wall .
I'm pleased with this thread, it seems like things are relatively civil. Please keep this up! And be mindful not to unnecessary escalate this discussion. I will be upset if this out of hand and locked, that wouldn't be good for anyone.
Don't talk bout about ike! No matter HOW he got banned, people would talk about it. Watch yourself when you make these false statements. Ike doesn't give two craps about being famous, and he's certainly not proud to be banned from a server he dedicated four years into! You obviously don't know ike, so don't make stupid assumptions painting him in a bad light. The whole reasons people are up in arms is that he was banned for doing nothing wrong, as was all the people that defended him.
No No, perhaps you misunderstood. I wasn't talking about ike in particular, I meant to all users out there. Sorry for any confusion, some users are different from others
