Usually I find appropriate, well-documented, professional sources (such as when I am writing a report, essay, or paper professional or for academically), but... I don't have hours to spend doing the research, lol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maturity_(psychological) Maturity is not just one "thing." There are many aspects to maturity; cultural, religious, socio-economical, biopsychosocialogical, experience, etc are all involved. Also, the majority of "facts" that people state, are not true (best to not "make up" facts unless you have supporting evidence from a trustworthy/respected source(s)). Most "children" (subjective, like maturity) are "immature" because of their lack of experience and development - that is a given, no matter what. However, even the youngest of users can be "mature," (or more mature than the "mature," older users) and have the ability and capacity. There really is no given or set percentage on "maturity" when it varies so much (especially on our server, considering all the the cultural and socio-economical variety we have) and how many children/adults are "mature." And, because "maturity" involves experience, to be very simplified, even older users can be "immature" if they have not had the experience...whatever the "experience" is (in this case of scamming on a game (or real life)). Many people are immature on ECC when it comes to scamming - back or front end. As well, you seem to be all for harsher punishments and saying learning isn't enough/not important... yet you contradict yourself when saying "[...] allow them to decide things for themselves after they get a handle on things." Based on this, you also agree that users should experience the "pain" or "frustration" (a handle on things) of being scammed to learn from it, and/or to use all the many resources provided for them. So are you for just severer punishments, learning from mistakes, or both? You seem to down on learning from mistakes, but also...don't (I am talking about all of your posts, not just the one I quoted in this post). Continuing, though, users can not/will not use the resources we provide them if they are confident that anyone who scams will get severely punished and they get their stuff back... Promoting severe punishment and/or higher guarantees of getting your items and/or money back will discourage, or do no type of positive encouraging, to be well-informed and researched. Many people will just deal with the risk, not worried, because they will think and assume they get their stuff back any time things go awry. (Not to mention people may abuse an all-around severe punishment system to get people in trouble) That is hardly promoting users to become experienced, gain maturity or knowledge, etc - if anything, it may encourage users to be lazier, not care as much about their belongings, cause more fear in doing trades/deals (users may be afraid that a simple misunderstanding, leading to a complaint, could lead in severe punishment), etc. --- Spoiler: My opinion on scams and how they should be handled... My personal opinion/standpoint on scams is to add more variables to the Staff guidelines, system, and method(s) of handling complaints. I absolutely do not agree with adding more severe punishment on a flat line/broad spectrum for scams. Having a broad, overall, "add more severe punishments" will end very badly and create a lot of unfairly handled complaints. There needs to be more variables added to how Staff handles scams; make separate, well-written and explain guide(line)s for each type of scam. For example, donation scams - branched into the donator scamming, the one paying the donator but scamming, gift cards or features, ranges of how much is donated/not paid to the donator, etc and how each should be handled, allowing for /some/ Staff discretion and a fair amount of situation and scenario difference (rank of the user(s) involved, whether there are contracts or just screenshots, how much the user(s) donated prior, their server age, etc). I know this would take a lot of time for Staff to all agree on, "testing"/trial periods, and to write up, but that is personally how I would have scams "handled" differently. Right now most are just briefly discussed in Staff chat + complaint thread discussion, and sometimes sent to a few select Staff members (GAs, last I knew) for investigation (the more serious scams)... There is too much subjectivity and (without knowing the behind-the-scenes for GAs) not enough structure and details being considered based on a guideline/format/document. Spoiler In no way am I trying to insult the Staff who handled scams at the moment... I just believe that some scams are not handled severely enough, and others are handled far too severely. If Staff truly believe that we are "in the wrong for thinking that, and we do not know enough," then Staff should really consider giving us some insight on what is being considered when scams are dealt with/handled. Community doesn't need details - we need an idea/concept. And, again... I am not meaning to insult or down on Staff. Most things are handled well and don't need [much (personal opinion)] tweaks or rehauls. Scamming, though, is so varied, subjective, and a major issue that many users have recently not been pleased with how they are handled. Usually if there are constant many loud voices, or a majority, changes should be considered...
Well, seeing as the main point of this post is if scamming has gotten worse. My answer is no. I have seen significantly more severe issues with larger frequency in the past. We aren't doing too bad. In fact, I would argue that the only reason it seems like its worse is because we have more people wanting more severe action. This is continually bringing more attention to the scams (which isn't a bad thing). I'm simply saying that as with many things, it seems worse because we are more focused on it. That being said, I wish there was a better way to handle the issue, but I feel those should be discussed in the suggestion forums. I have always advocated hitting criminals where it hurts, their wallet. This is an economy and that is what speaks the most. That being said, its applicability is a little hard. Commands would have to be made, issues figured out and it would take a long time to perfect any sort of a system like that.
When I was a builder-resident/early mayor, in July and August, the scamming seemed really bad, I remember I was scammed 120k for donation features as a resident and at was a terrible loss to me. That being said, I fell like the scamming died down in November-December, and is now picking back up, it's a shame that we even need to talk about this. Really people need to become aware, like just recently I started repairing another persons melon sword for free, the problem is, if I was a crooked person, I could easily steal it because he does not get confirmation that I am going to repair it, does not use a chest, and throws it whenever, I am going to talk about this with him but people need to use the resources people have made available and help themselves.
Okay, so here was my solution to fixing this so called "scamming problem". I am a builder, and seem like somebody who is more likely to scam. I offered the person whom I sold a $15 feature to, to have the option to do it through a middle man. A moderator+ is definitly preferred for this. I told them, I would have to charge slightly higher, but this is my proposal: We add moderator X into our local chat. Moderator X sees the deal, and reveices the payment from the Eco-Dollar buyer. I, the donation seller, then goes and purchases the item. I wait patiently for the donation feature to go through, and for the original user to confirm they have reveived it. If you some reason, the person receiving the donation feature doesn't confirm it with me and the moderator, then I would send the moderator the receipt via forum PM. I STRONGLY SUGGEST you pay a little extra from the person you are buying from, and do it this was. It is much better to pay 6k per USD, and be safe, rather than 5.5k and have the chance of a scam.
I spent the better part of 3 months doing this. Each time my suggestion was belittled or ignored or taken as flaming. If it is the staff's position to view the solution as Moof puts it, then there is no hope. There is no solution. There will continue to be a revolving door of scams and bans and appeals and no one will ever see any kind of justice. I've said it before and I'll say it again... you are protecting the bad people at the expense of the good people and I am continuing to lose respect for you each time it happens
Dork, I'm sorry that you are losing respect for me, but, you do know how I feel about these issues. I'm not trying to protect the bad people, I'm trying to minimize the damage to the victims.
My personal opinion on this matter is the scamming is probably around the same prevalance.. the difference is that the types of scams have shifted between then and now. The worst time I can recall for scamming were a number of donation scams by a small handful of users, but the damage they incurred I say would easily rival the scamming now that's happening across the more people that are trying to do it. The types of scams have also shifted away from donations a bit, and you see far more loan scams nowadays. It is the user's responsibility, and always has been, to do everything in their power to try to ensure that they are trading with a safe person. The threads that Phys has linked are incredibly helpful in achieving such. Sure, guilty parties should be held accountable, and the staff team has taken more strides towards this. You weren't around for such, but it used to be that if you were scammed you were SOL. They appealed and were approved, they didn't owe you a dime, and the staff had to back that. The fact that in certain cases now we can hold the scammers accountable to pay back part or all of the damage if they appeal is a huge step from where it used to be, and while justice is not as common as you would like to see it, it's far more common now than how it used to be. In terms of protecting the bad guys.. the staff doesn't see bad or good guys (on a staff level, I'm sure that some staff have their personal opinions). We see players, and we have to treat all players fairly to the best of our ability, regardless of what they've done or what they've been put through. We do try to hold all players accountable to an equal standard, but as you can imagine, being a game, that is just difficult. We don't try to protect the bad guys. We are required to give them an equal chance to have a second chance on the server if they appeal, just like for people who have been banned for non-scam related issues. You may feel that scammers shouldn't have that second chance, and I respect your right to have that opinion, however I do not share it and the standards that the staff team has laid out does not share it. Seeing as how that's how it's always been, I personally do not see it changing in the near future. Just my thoughts on the matter.
I remember when people were auctioning eggs... People figured it out in the 3000 bidding range but by then it was a joke and it raked up more money than a horse egg. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
But I was scammed a different way... A moderator forgot to put a ban reason and now I'm basically permabanned. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Scamming will happen and it will fluctuate. There are some people who will look for opportunities to scam. One of the best ways to prevent being scammed is use trade signs. If only trade signs could be extended to custom/enchanted items and/or loaning items (like melon swords).
dork1877 Scams don't get worst, or anything general to that matter. Simply, new scams come along and new ways of doing so. Things that are so stupid, that only the slightest and most ignorant part of the community can be scammed. Scams have always been the same as they are now, and they will always be.
Um, no, scams can get worse. It's not impossible. There could be more of them. There can be worse scams. They can be bigger scams. Etc. They can get worse.
