So i'm going to begin this little spree of trying to get a bunch of apparent 'Rules' clarified. This'll be my first one. I'll be Calling on mods to put their opinions forth, and i hope to get some good discussion going on these. Some of these rules really need clarification, atleast in my opinion, and since no-one else seems to be doing it at the moment, i guess i'll start it up!
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[Case 1]
Recently some people have been telling me that it is against the rules to grief someone in-front of them(in the wild), entitling it "Harassment". Is this true? Because last time i checked, this was a rule made up by the now-defunct super-mod Sios, and that it was turned down some time ago after much discussion within the moderating community. Rumor has it, people have even been banned for such.
I think by having such disallowed in the wild, we're opening up a serious hole and a moral dilemma which was solved some time ago by flat-out allowing all wild grief. If we allow this, therefore by precedent aren't we opening up the room for having wild grief classified as "Harassment" anyway? At the moment, it sort of sounds like a case of Entrapment. We advertise griefing in the wild to be allowed, then we ban them for harassment if someone happens to be nearby.
I'd really like to have a definite answer to this, with hopefully the final say coming from Andrewkm.
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welikeike22 Dean MartinBuilder ⛰️ Ex-EcoLeader ⚜️⚜️⚜️ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade
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As far as clarifying the rules this is the first I've heard of this rule being an issue. There is a clear distinction between greifing in the wild, and taking down someones creation block by block in front of them while they build it. While i think that you have a point in that it can be hard to distinguish between the line of where one starts and the other finishes. This is enforced by warnings and kicks only extreme cases are supposed to be banned due to the nature of the rule and it's application to that environment.
Please read the server rules and direct anyone unsure to them.
Things to note and take away with you;
These may not seem clear to you but if you ever feel like you can't see the line feel free to ask me and I'll help you out with it. When in doubt ask the moderators. Having said that why not just use common sense? -
Well I believe if someone asks you to leave them alone and you continue to do whatever it is that you are doing (following them, pushing them, not leaving there spawn shop if they are remodeling, trying to take a trade from them) that is harassment . I can see this falling in line with that but you have to ask someone to stop/leave before they are doing anything wrong in those cases and you have to take screen shots of you asking them to stop and them continuing.
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welikeike22 Dean MartinBuilder ⛰️ Ex-EcoLeader ⚜️⚜️⚜️ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade
I understand it may be viewed as common sense, but the line between Trolling and Griefing is a very vague line, especially in cases like this. Griefing in itself is technically, by definition, trolling. You're tearing down another users creation without their permission and without(in most cases) good intentions.
Stated here, the rules claim that griefing in the wild is allowed 100%. I understand what you're trying to say, Newarrior, but the statement from the rule book stands. There is a fine line, understandably, between outright harassment through the guise of server-allowed griefing, and normal run-of-the-mill griefing. The wild is a completely different place than, say, a protected town or a spawn store. One can ask you to leave their town, and you are obligated to do such, but you can stand in the wild outside of their town. Through the clause of 'Harassment', are we not making it so people cannot mind their own business in the wild, doing as they please?
When does the line between forcing someone out of their protected home(which is what we're making wild homes here, apparently) and the wild turning into a semi-protected place where one being in their house on a 24/7 basis make their house impenetrable to griefers through mere vagueness of rules? As the passage from the rule says, while it may not be nice it is still not against the rules. -
It an incredibly fine line. My opinion on it varies case by case. For the most part, I let users know that there's nothing I can do about it when it comes to wild grief. However, being someone who used to run around and grief wild houses every once in awhile, there's a line I draw when I let grief turn into harassment in the wild:
Is there taunting? If you experience a grief in the wild, and the party who did it is taunting you excessively as they do so, I consider this harassment. If they aren't there, I'd find it inappropriate to leave signs that taunt/harass/blackmail/etc., especially ones that are locked (which is where I sometimes draw the line between harassment and trolling), since it's difficult to get LWCs done in the wild.
That being said, it is a case by case basis. As I've pointed out at one point, grief may be allowed in the wild, but trolling and harassment are not allowed on this server regardless of location. -
I have to agree with this. I see it as harassment not when someone is griefing your place, but more of if they are verbally harassing/taunting either in chat or on signs, or even possibly when being asked to stop constantly and they are ignoring it
There is one thing I have to say as well - pushing people into PvP isn't against the rules because it's nearly impossible to enforce it anyway. It upsets people when nothing can be done because of how difficult it is to get evidence when it is clearly against the rules.
In the same way, if it becomes against the rules, I can see complaints by builders popping up everywhere with a lack of evidence and leaving them even more upset in the end. If it is against the rules, it's better that it's not really something officially stated in the rules and more of something that you have to read carefully for.