Denied [All Main Servers Suggestion] Block fish in chestshops

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Nicit6, Aug 10, 2023.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    In Game Name:
    Nicit6
    What part of EcoCityCraft is this suggestion for:
    All Main Servers
    Short title for your suggestion:
    Block fish in chestshops
    What are you suggesting:
    Remove the ability to buy or sell fish in chestshops.
    Why is this a good addition for EcoCityCraft?:
    There is no market for fish, other than prestige shops. Everyone seems to agree that fishing is stupid broken compared to everything else. This lets prestige shops continue boosting other means of earning, and allows players with prestige to continue fishing, but makes it much more difficult to buy and sell fish at scale.
    Other information:
    Will this totally solve the problem with fish? Obviously not. It should make other means of earning money more appealing to other players. I don't see why we should let perfect be the enemy of good, and I don't see what this will hurt.
    Plugin or custom addition:
    Should be doable with chestshops permissions/config.
    One suggestion per form:
    I Understand.
     
  2. Ishanv

    Ishanv King of Trivia Ex-SuperMod
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ EcoLeader ⛰️⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐⭐ X ⭐⭐ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    45,360
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +180
    +1, I believe that this would be a legitimate way for players with prestige to actually benefit from getting prestige. Prestige shops have now been set at max and are not being used for profit. Of course, players could find a way to still sell fish to people with higher prestige so that they could make more money, but it would be more difficult without chestshops and such that fishing may become better for higher level prestige players than for lower level prestige players. As nicit stated, it's not gonna remove the entire problem around fishing but I believe this is really a step in the right direction.
     
  3. LimeLush

    LimeLush Events Man
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ V ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    1,417
    Trophy Points:
    47,410
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +470
    +1 but we can do so much more with this. Any item that has a magic item version of it should not be available in a chest shop or just outright ban prestige shops all together. It's nice to finally see the shops buying at max price though, so none of them profit.

    Another idea could be to just rework prestige entirely and move away from the sell bonus aspect. Perhaps its a % off taxes or something else. Not sure, but wanted to at least throw an idea out there.
     
  4. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    While those are definitely valid ideas- this isn't really meant to be a nerf to prestige overall. This is mainly aimed at making other methods of earning more viable by comparison. If everything is nerfed by a similar amount, then fishing is exactly as viable as it was and it's still going to be the only thing anyone does.
     
  5. GolD45

    GolD45 President
    President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-President ⚒️⚒️ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    36,860
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +66
    1. You can't tax fish. To discourage players from selling them is to encourage hoarding, which would take less out of the economy.
    2. Players already hoard. For the vast majority of players, this changes nothing anyway.
    3. Shulkers of fish would become a currency (because it would be easier, you forced it), again meaning they would never see taxes.
    4. It wouldn't be long anyway before all prestige shop owners knew the exact worth of fish shulkers, and the trade could be done in 15 seconds.

    Suggestion would have the exact opposite effect as intended. You are guidng everyone to tax avoidance and holding their hand the whole way.

    I would, in fact, go even further to argue that, in bulk, this would force the sale of fish to be easier. Have you ever tried unpacking a dchest of tropical fish shulkers to sell them? I haven't, I'm poor. However, one payment of 19,244,424 and the shop owner breaking the chest sounds much more pleasasnt.

    TLDR: no
     
  6. SirSpuzzy

    SirSpuzzy Wandering Shulker Salesman
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor EcoLegend ⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐⭐ XI ⭐⭐ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    524
    Trophy Points:
    70,360
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +246
    -1
    Were we not told to do exactly this? Buy items and shit and stockpile to avoid tax? Andrew has said it many times in the past. Everyone who has too much ecd stockpiles something, fish just happens to be the easiest. And shouldnt people who worked their ass off for max prestige and boosted items get to enjoy that work? Personally ive spent alot more money getting my prestiges then ive earnt from my shop or saved from taxes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • List
  7. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    You're right! You were told to do exactly this!

    That's why I'm suggesting an approach that:
    - doesn't devalue any fish you already own in any way at all
    - doesn't devalue your future work in any way at all
    - doesn't make fish impossible to stockpile (you can still sell fish at scale using shulkerboxes and /trade or other private means)

    In fact, this really makes your prestige more valuable, since at max prestige, the viability of fishing as an income source isn't changed at all. It only becomes less viable at lower prestiges.

    You said it yourself - fish happens to be the easiest right now. The point of this is to make something else the easiest.
     
    #7 Nicit6, Aug 12, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  8. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    I agree that you cannot tax fish because it is not money. Taking money out of the economy isn't the point of my suggestion, though.
    If this changes nothing, then surely there's no issue here. If it changes nothing, there's no harm either.
    Fish are not money. I agree. We do not tax fish. I'm not sure why we would want to tax fish. Fish are friends.
    Prestige shop owners will have to interact with players directly to do that. It means coordinating online times. It means verifying. It means typing things out. It means risk. It's meant to be more inconvenient than it is now.
    I'm not sure what you think the intent of my suggestion is. It is not to reduce the amount of money in the economy. It is to make fishing as a primary source of income generally more inconvenient, which as you mention in your next paragraph: it absolutely will.

    Players are lazy and making something more difficult means less of them are willing to do it. It makes everything look a little better by comparison. Maybe prestige shop owners will figure shit out and this does nothing in the long term, but that means there's still no harm in trying it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  9. bsqt

    bsqt Head of Sports
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐⭐ XI ⭐⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2012
    Messages:
    501
    Trophy Points:
    79,010
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +338
    Make Mining Great Again!
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  10. GolD45

    GolD45 President
    President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-President ⚒️⚒️ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    36,860
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +66
    , not food.

    Also hoarding bad.

    I imagine you wanted to help the economy in some way, rather than make it worse. To make hoarding easier is not a winning strategy. Sorry :(
     
  11. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    Diversifying the viable means of earning makes the economy better. It makes it more enjoyable, and that's ultimately more important than inflation or the money supply when this is a game.

    If the economy is really in such a state where people will simply hoard fish regardless of convenience or how much other methods of earning make, all is already lost.
     
    #11 Nicit6, Aug 12, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  12. GolD45

    GolD45 President
    President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-President ⚒️⚒️ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    May 19, 2019
    Messages:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    36,860
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +66
    Bsqt said it best
     
  13. LimeLush

    LimeLush Events Man
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ V ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    1,417
    Trophy Points:
    47,410
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +470
    To avoid making shulkers of fish tradable at a chestshop, we could also just make is so any shulker with MBT data can't be used in chestshops either. Making fishing less convenient is the way to go.
     
  14. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    There's a handful of ways to easily go about that, you can also set "max" prices that would be unreasonable for shoulders full of fish (ie way too low)
     
  15. PyroTechnix_

    PyroTechnix_ Owner of Colebex
    EcoLegend ⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️ Ex-President ⚒️⚒️ Prestige ⭐ V ⭐ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    828
    Trophy Points:
    56,510
    Gender:
    Male
    EcoDollars:
    $1,295
    Ratings:
    +348
    Simply just need to buff other money making methods.
     
  16. SirSpuzzy

    SirSpuzzy Wandering Shulker Salesman
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor EcoLegend ⛰️⛰️⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐⭐ XI ⭐⭐ Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    524
    Trophy Points:
    70,360
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +246
    Shulker trading is helpful, I know @coow_coow was selling shulkers with all the mojang heads as a bundle in a shulker. Disabling all shulkers with MBT data from chestshops is 100% not the way to go
     
  17. LimeLush

    LimeLush Events Man
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ V ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    1,417
    Trophy Points:
    47,410
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +470
    @Nicit6 said it best. Put a cap on what shulkers can be sold for then. Just remove the convenience of fishing entirely. Other methods need to be more desirable.
     
    #17 LimeLush, Aug 12, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  18. BobbyBlack

    BobbyBlack Community Spokesperson
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐⭐ XI ⭐⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,814
    Trophy Points:
    78,160
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,531
    oooh nooooo, im just gonna have to wait for lopp or coow or anyone else who buys fish at max price to get on and manually trade my fish for their ecd. whatever will i dooooo. i really dont understand how stockpiling and selling it without a chestshop sign is any less convenient.

    I place 10 shulkers of fish, they pay for 10 shulkers and break them. soooo inconvenient
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
    #18 BobbyBlack, Aug 12, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2023
  19. Nicit6

    Nicit6 N6
    Mayor ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐ II ⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    9,816
    Trophy Points:
    106,160
    Ratings:
    +8,040
    If it's not any less convenient then why even be against the suggestion, since it won't adversely affect you?

    I'd still consider forcing players to interact with each other directly rather than using signs a good thing.
     
  20. BobbyBlack

    BobbyBlack Community Spokesperson
    Mythic ⚔️ I ⚔️ ECC Sponsor President ⛰️⛰️ Ex-EcoLegend ⚜️⚜️⚜️⚜️ Prestige ⭐⭐ XI ⭐⭐ Gameplay Architect Premium Upgrade

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,814
    Trophy Points:
    78,160
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,531
    This suggestion doesnt affect me since im prestige 10 blah blah anyways. I am just stating that I dont see how this would change anything. people will still make the same amount. they will simply have to trade the fish in a different manner. what will this change. You say its to make it more difficult, but is this change really going to make it difficult in the end? Going from clicking a sign to placing shulkers down instead isnt really that difficult.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.