Denied [All Main Servers Suggestion] 1 time use "kits" for lower ranks

+1
Its already hard enough for builders to start off with the way the economy is right now. This would make it easier for builders to get started and would just be an overall quality of life adjustment for newer players. As well as this it would cause no harm to the economy because it would be a one time use thing.

 

+1 I like this idea. I don't really see it negatively impacting the economy at all; in fact I think it'd help positively, because the players would stick around and participate in the community and the market in general.

Xp bottles don't go for anything at all really, so that's good. Netherite I think has lost the "omg it's brand new, gotta have it" factor so I don't see either item being successfully sold. I don't think that's a threat at all.

 

The point of ECC is that it's a hardcore economy server (although it can be argued that it may be less hardcore than it was a while back). With the current economy & rank-up prices, it is super easy to rank-up. We already have /kit starter which gives unlimited uses, and goes a decent way for a new player. Kit starter already supplies full iron armour, a set of iron tools, food and a few totems on undying. Not only that, but /fix is basically at their disposal with a simple question in /ch tr. There is already the suggestion to half the exp shops prices, and now this?

Don't get me wrong, I agree that some players find it difficult to get started, but isn't that the point? The point of ECC is to grind to get to where you want to be, much like many of us have. It definitely isn't as hard as some of the current successful players had it.

The problem you are pointing out is that new players complain of how difficult it is to progress. The problem I see, is that new players don't know/understand how to play. My suggestion to go against this would be maybe altering the current tutorial or adding a book into newer players inventories with all the rules/tips about how to make money with the current economy. This would help a lot of the new players who skip through the tutorial maybe understand a little about the server.

I Just have to -1 this because it coincides a lot with the other suggestion ( https://ecocitycraft.com/forum/thre...stion-half-the-prices-of-warp-enchant.208021/ ) and I just don't understand nor agree as to how and why we would be adding onto the free things new players receive.

I'm not too sure of the current player retention rate but theres a decent number of players who stay and play/grind without spending USD.

Nicklepot18, IshanDJB, Biezzi77, Electro_Claw, Mr_Kronks, Flynn1597 - Just to name a few that are pretty successful and have joined all but a few months ago at best.

 

+1
definitely not a biased resident who wants a free netherite pickaxe

In all seriousness though, the drawbacks are few considering the state of inflation in the economy, and the benefits could be enormous in terms of player retention. I realize people like to say "this is a hardcore economy server" but at this point lots of money is just being given away. I don't even have a magic tool but anything under 100k is pocket change to me. Also, the fact they are "one-time only" is important. The netherite pickaxe alone would incentivize people to stay and become resident, and the exp would give builders the drive to go and enchant right away, ideally then staying a few hours to at least give our server a shot.

Kit starter is a great start, but it's something that every economy server offers and is little incentive to actually stay. Iron tools are a joke - a few iron ore sold to the market can already buy full diamond gear anyways. It's a token gift at best. As for the "hardcore" moniker, you said it yourself that it's arguably lost its meaning.

I fully agree with this assessment. The tutorial needs an overhaul, absolutely. I'd say the book suggestion is more likely, but the true issue is that there's just so much to cover that much of it gets glossed over. I'd almost say we need to have a full-on custom encyclopedia made just for ECC, with a searchable index and everything, primarily utilizing information already available on the wiki. It would help a ton. Obviously that's just my first thoughts, and I can't say if it's even worth the time to implement as I am not andrew. Yet, I don't think it goes far enough. We need to provide actual incentive now, as I can say from my experience a decade ago that being pushed to obtain something meaningful, like a powerful pickaxe, is at the very least a strong incentive to stay because you already know you have such gear on a server you can access on any time once obtained. Personally, it's part of the reason I keep returning - the fact that I have all of this stuff and a community ready to welcome me at any point I so desire.

Incentive to stay is a good idea. While I agree with the items suggested, even if they are not implemented I think something else then needs to instead. I cannot say what that something else should be, but I do agree that incentive needs to be provided.

 

+1 for the exp bottles, maybe, but maybe less of them. Idk

-1 for the pick. Too OP imo

 

-1
i think things are fine for new players. Sure us older make millions a day, but max tools cost nothing. New players already get 10k to start with, and alot of support from established players. Persinally i help out by giving new players max tool sets.

 

-1

This is flatly untrue, it is possible to get netherstars by buying them from playershops and thus interacting with the economy. Actually promoting supply and demand is a major problem right now, due to the fact that the nether star economy is entirely invested in server backed goddrops at the moment.

Not only is this untrue for the reasons stated above about nstars, this point isn’t even a net harm. New players can take full advantage of 70$ ore prices across the board (you don’t even need silk touch!), and creating an hour or two of early player grinding is a core purpose of an economy server. Jump starting players to higher and higher levels of wealth is pointless when its the journey that matters.
Furthermore, there will always be a gap between those that spend USD and those that don’t, and I don’t see how this suggestion, which applies equally to everyone, bridges that gap. Unlike some of the worse aspects of the p2w system, skipping a few hours of grinding does not create the sort of perpetual advantage that the ability to purchase things like goddrops, SG kits, or SB ranks does. Therefore, this purported harm is not a true reason to endorse the suggestion.

This ignores the reason behind why an economy exists in the first place. The intrinsic assumption that every person should be able to have access to every part of the economy from the start defeats the point of grinding up to the point where you have access to a full range of options.

The fallacy here is most obvious when you think about afk farming: It may not “impact the economy” of people with star rods could autofish, because magic rods exist, but the administration says (rightly so), that people should have to work for their money. Sure, there’s a fair bit of hypocrisy coming from the admin, but it’s true.

Again, you consider only the impact of the suggestion on the “economy”, despite the fact that the existence of an “economy” without a system for earning value is useless. In fact, this statement should give rise to the question of why nearly all segments of the “player economy” are just fronts for server items.

I disagree. The overall impact of the suggestion is to get featless builders to mayor+ rank extremely quickly. Once there, its extremely difficult to progress further once tools & money aren’t being thrown at you. Heck, getting a single feat is 10x more expensive then getting mayor. All this suggestion does is remove an important part of ECC’s opening grind, while jeeping in place the structural problems that make it fundamentally impossible for players (without a few K to spend) to progress after they have reached mayor and beyond.

I would disagree. Right now it appears that the grind from builder to mayor or Pres is relatively short, while the grind from mayor to Fly/Ereps is a massive slump for newer players. When you look at the prices and facts, this makes sense. We have several new players at Mayor - Tycoon ranks, but with none or very few of the feats needed to get any further. With feature prices starting to close in on the magic 100k/usd number, the suggestion provides no relief to these players that are actually and effectively stuck.

The fact that “lots of money is being given away” and “100k is pocket change” should be a clue as to where the main roadblock in the economy is. Players aren’t unable to rank up to resident because of a lack of exp, (remember, less than an hour of mining gives enough iron ore to rank up), but a large amount of players are unable to progress because they lack feats & massive capitol required to get any further.
Perhaps there is an argument to be made that providing an “incentive” to rank up to resident will increase builder retention, but considering the ease of getting the mayor town already, I doubt that adding yet another incentive would have too much of an impact.

This statement fundamentally contradicts your support for the suggestion. The fact that “a few iron ore” can give builders enough in tools to start successfully would seemingly obviate the need and impact of adding in additional support.

The Incentive to stay provided by this suggestion, as you agreed above, lasts for a few hours at best, before a player would get more then enough wealth to nullify the need for a max pick. At that point, they would fa e the monumental task of getting millions of ECD without feats, in order to simply acquire the feats needed for effective use of star+ tools. This middlegame provides no incentive to stay, and is unsolved by the suggestion.

That’s just not true. The 10k builder bonus easily gets players an eff3 unbreaking III diamond pick that they can then cave with free from fear of mobs. Combined with totems lf undying, this makes acquiring mayor a relatively easy task, perhaps taking a few hours of grinding. I have personally mined enough iron ore to power a full beacon on /anarchy in about 4 hours using just an eff4 unbreaking 3 pick (without xray or fastbreak), and that was while contending with double damage mobs.

Respectfully, I don’t see how creating a small shortcut to getting mayor+ is going to retain the small class of players who for whatever reason did not want to grind to mayor under the currently existing system AND who won’t quit when realizing that they will have to grind millions more in order to become an “established” player. These two narrowing categories mean that the effect of this suggestion will simply be to remove part of the Economic grind at the beginning of the game, without providing any lasting solution for the midgame economy whatsoever.

 

This.

-1

 

+1 we really out here trying to see builders succeed

 

We won't be making such changes at this time based on the discussion above as well our own plans for the future.