If you are reading this thread, you are probably already aware there is a lot of comments about the buffer kit being a little overpowered. There have been a number of suggestions at removing the kit, or taking strength pot out of the kit completely. We have a policy of not making major changes to supporter perks unless it becomes impossible due to minecraft/plugin changes. So this is very unlikely to happen. What I might be able to offer you however is a 'change' to the strength pot inside of the buffer kit. Some people might remember that some time ago I added some hit effects to invisible players to help with the invisibility pot issue. I think we could get away with adding some constructive change to the 'strength' pot inside the buffer kit. I think the buffer pots should still combine to be an over powered combo, that is the point in the kit. What it shouldn't allow you to do is completely screw over the game-play. I think the pot should still allow a 1-2 hit kill in almost all situations, but I want to make it harder for people to actually get these kills, or at the very least reduce how many people can get per game. I this thread I want a discussion about potential changes, which slightly reduce the pots effectiveness, but do not remove it completely. Comments that go outside of this area may be removed without warning. For this reason, please don't directly reply to comment trolls, because it may cause your post to be deleted as well. So, some options: 1) Add a slowness effect to the strength potion. This will be counteracted with the speed potion, meaning that you will need to use more thought with this kit. The potions could be configured to completely cancel each other out, so speed+str = normal speed, or maybe just a slight reduction in top speed. This wouldn't stop the potions being used independently for people with a bit more strategy. 2) Reduce the amount of time the strength pot lasts for. This would make it less likely that people can run up a large string of kills before the strength pot wears out. Means people will have to think a little more about when to use the pot. 3) Turn the strength pot into a splash potion. This has both upsides and downsides. Means people could cooperate when using the pots, but means that people will find it harder to drink a strength pot just before battle, and will often accidentally hit other people. This could also be combined with some of the other options. 4) Make the pot effects wear off quickly after a kill. This would stop the kill chaining which is possible when running around with both speed+strength pot. Could make it so that the effects wear off 10s, 5s, 2s, after a kill. This means after you killed the first player with the pot, you would only have the effect for a short period afterwards. This could apply to just the strength pot, or both speed and strength. 5) Make the pot effects time half after each kill. This would stop the kill chaining which is possible when running around with both speed+strength pot. This means you could still chain a few kills, but the overall time the pot lasts will be greatly reduced when killing a couple people. This could apply to just the strength pot, or both speed and strength. 6) Add a weakness effect to the strength potion. This option wouldn't reduce the effectiveness of the potion itself to kill people but would make using the pot more risky, and would be best used in surprise attacks, and not used as a definite win during deathmatch. 7) Drinking the strength potion deals damage. This would cause an instant damage effect, dealing 3-5 hearts worth of instant damage. This would reduce the chance of the pot being used just before a fight, since you would want to combo it with time for health regeneration, golden apple, or health pot. 8) Drinking the strength potion causes wither effect. This would cause an short wither effect damage lasting 10-20 seconds. This would reduce the chance of the pot being used just before a fight, since you would want to combo it with time for health regeneration, golden apple, or health pot. 9) Drinking the strength potion reduces max hp. This would cause a reduction in the max health of the player by 2-5 hearts. This option wouldn't reduce the effectiveness of the potion itself to kill people but would make using the pot more risky, and would be best used in surprise attacks, and not used as a definite win during deathmatch. 10) Increase the hunger rate. This would increase the rate at which a player burns through there hunger bar, similar to eating rotten flesh only faster. This would mean players health would probably not auto regenerate and would have a hard time sprinting. Remember to comment on the thread on the details of your option, for example if you want instant damage, describe how much you want, such as "random damage between 3-4 hearts", and how long the negative effects would last.
I personally like the idea of reducing max hp. It would keep the kit still being powerful (as is the intention behind it), whilst making the users more vulnerable to being killed. Increased offence in return for reducing defence. If there are worries about this still allowing too many kills per pot, perhaps it could be combined with a reduction in time per kill as well. Maybe knocking off 10-15 seconds of the timer after each kill?
What about making the potion itsself less OP? like keeping the current potion time, but make it a regular strength potion. (If its possible)
That goes against the purpose of the kit and I'm not currently considering that option, it should still do the same amount of damage. This is an attempt to lower the abuse of the kit, without reducing its effectiveness to down a single player in 1-2 hits. I want to reduce the chance of getting large kill streaks with the kit, not preventing people to blow the str pot to down a single player. Some of these effects also make it just generally more risky to use the kit, so will take a little strategy to use, instead of it just being this super 'i can kill everyone' op mode.
Onto the actual thread, my preferred adjustments are for Drinking the strength potion deals damage Drinking the strength potion causes wither effect for the reasons stated by Khobbits
Here goes nothing. My issue with buffer is that it turns the early game/deathmatch into "who has better connection." Killing in 1 or 2 hits destroys the amount of skill required in the game because it lowers chances for another player to come back from a certain loss through skill or running. It makes the game far too simple. Getting critted in full iron/pf armor is no fun. Just who can hit fastest or who has the lowest latency. In other words, I would like to use the term "uncompetitive." I think, as a start to making sg more balanced and fair to non kitters (of which I was a part of not too long ago) buffer should have its strength pot removed, and price changed to $15. Although I realize that buffer is meant to be overpowered by its very nature, I think it creates an unfair environment enough that it should be removed. Also, I think it is really dumb that someone can come out of the blue, while invisible, and one shot you. I ended up voting for the second option because it severely reduces the spamming of the kit early game. However, it doesn't touch the problem with deathmatch. In that case I would think a combination of 2 and 4 would prove most effective. It would reduce spamming of buffer while also make buffer not an autowin in deathmatch. I would seriously advise against options 7, 8, and 9. They just further reduce the skill required by making buffer one shot other buffer users, which is what I think is most broken in sg. Rather than slowing down the game, it would speed up the game. I hope a logical solution can be made from this. All of this is my educated opinion from experiences in sg. EDIT: with less buffer and therefore a slower game, hackers will be more easily caught than when they kill in 1-2 hits.
I would contest that itself will mean people will not want to use buffer in endgame, because they risk just being 1 hit killed, even by players without buffer. I like the idea that players who are using buffer, should do so at risk to themselves, think about it as increasing strength at a cost to defence.
while this has been proposed, this is not fair to the people who have already bought the kit. they have payed for the kit of actual buffer and adding a restriction is unfair to the donors who alreaddy payed for it. this change can be added to the people who will buy the kit in the future, but not to the ones who already have it. plus this is part of the ecc and is a step where people must either get bfr (which drives up donations)or get very good at pvp and get another kit to kill these buffer people (also driving up donations) also andrew will not agree to this because the OPness of the buffer kit is what people buy it for, therefor it will drive the amount of donations down.
That's why #8 is a good one, because it forces players to give up their defence in return for offense. Would it take away hearts or would it take away your total health like golden apples add to your total health to make it 12 instead of 10?
I guess that's where our opinions on sg are different then. You prefer a faster game where people always 1 hit while I want a slower, more skill intensive game. All assuming that each person has miq and pf.
There isn't any rule saying we can't make changes to the support packages after people buy them, and effort is done to reduce the changes we make. This is not the first time we are considering making changes to existing sg kits. If you look at the changes I'm suggesting, they are change which slightly change the gameplay of the kits, but do not remove the 'OP damage' element of the potions, which is what most previous suggestions have been about. If we can't come to an agreement to change the buffer kit, we might instead have to change the gameplay in other ways, I don't think people would like me throwing excessive amounts of diamond armour into all the chests. Conversely for someone to actually want to buy an SG kit, they actually need to first play it and find it enjoyable. The main argument here is that all the buffer players are actually scaring away new SG players, and thus less people are buying kits altogether, and causing a lot of players to actually leave the server. I disagree with that statement, I think this will slow games considerably. While I think players who have buffer should be able to get a kill if they use it effectively, I want to reduce it being 'the solution to everything' so people have to think a little bit about if using its the right choice. Most of these options will reduce the amount of kills you can make with buffer, so instead of 5 players with buffer, getting 2-3 kills each, before the pot runs out, only 4 might end up using the potion, and only get 1-2 kills before the pot runs out. Meaning the game itself lasts longer. I also think less people will want to use buffer in deathmatch with these changes, meaning deathmatches will be more of a contest of skill, instead of just coming down to who has a str pot left.
I mean only combat kits. Like ones that affect damage. Not ones that help locate players. Which is why I prefer 2+4 so that buffer can only be used in one combat sitution to kill one, maybe two players. Not reduce the amount of hits it takes.
I think that users deserve to keep what they paid for. Any alteratioin to that should result in the option for a refund. -1. Buffer is rather op, and I would like to see some effect take place to see it more leveled. Other games do have more divided classes. Perhaps buffer would increase the attack, while lowering health, making it deal a ton of damage, but taking even more at the same time, making it less tank-y. +1 EDIT: I think the poll is pretty stacked. There should be an option of "I think it should stay the way it is." In order to make it valid/accurate.
+1 I would love to have this for myself to change it -1However for other people they might not like the change (not me) and I think a possiblity for them would be to exchange ti for another 30$ item in the ecc shop.
It's already been established that most people don't want it to stay the same, would be a waste of a poll option. This was never taken off the table, this is a discussion about the actual changes, depending on the scale of changes implemented, we might offer the opportunity to ask for a discount voucher based on how much the player originally paid for the kit (not the current sale price).
I don't play SG much at all (because of buffer and a couple other kits). Main issue I have is, out of the blue, being killed instantly. The speed in which someone can magically appear and then start killing you is insane - especially combined with being invisible. It's even worse when they can go and kill everyone else near you or teaming with you. Because I do not play much though, I don't know how much my words weigh. However, what I think would work best is the combination of 2 and 3. I did vote on 7 and 9 though, because I had "extra" votes. I like the concept of "taking the enemy down a notch" and weakening them, however I doubt it would make much of a difference. If they can already 1-2 shot me - and probably before I even see them or can turn around - it is unlikely that them getting harmed would change much... Because I would not have a chance to hit them, anyway. Anything that gives a gamble (like splash) or slows down the user seems like the best bet. Speed seems to be a huge killer when combined with pure strength; it's basically the definition of many gods and godmodes (of course, without the insane health).
I personally think speed is the problem. We paid for one shot kills.. so leave that. However I do not think we should get hurt, take a weakness or wither. Reduced speed is best in my opinion because if used with speed, it will not be nearly as effective. Also if the buffer users use the speed kit without the str pot, the str pot becomes near useless. Also, If not speed Make the time be reduced after every kill, As said this would reduce kill chains and effectiveness to an extent while still satisfying the users that already bought buffer with why they bought it.
