Minecraft Name: AdmiralD Suggestion: It would be great if the server could establish better guidelines and consistent enforcement and fees in regards to loans. Reason: Loans have completely failed on this server lately. The server makes the choice to allow those that do not pay their loans and banned to return with little or no consequence (reasoning: make it too hard they don't return) and now those that make loans are demanding outrageous fees because their loans are not paid back on time. There are two sides to each loan, but the decisions (or lack thereof) of not being consistent has led to to threats and bullying from both parties in regards to failed loans. Any Other Information: Yes: Stop borrowing money to play lotto or to pay off old debt - work hard and earn the money and be responsible and pay what you owe. Stop loaning to players that have been banned multiple times or have a history of playing lotto - you are just helping them work their way to a ban and you not receiving your money back. Do not believe you will ever be paid back when sending money to another player - only risk what you are able to recover on your own. Link To This Plugin/Is this a custom addition?: I do not believe there is a plugin available to cover the level of stupidity that loaning has become on the server as of late.
This isnt a server problem its a people problem, people take out loans they cant afford and agree to outrageous contracts. People are dumb, what can you do?
I have an idea. We should make a sticky that advises borrowers how to go about borrowing. Parts the sticky can include not to take out loans to pay off others, not to take loans unless you're absolutely certain you can pay them back, don't agree to contracts with outrageous fees and more. While as @RyanBlocks2 said, we can't stop people from being dumb, and loan scams are an issue we'll always unfortunately have to deal with, we can try educate borrowers and potential borrowers on the risks of borrowing money and tell them what not to do when taking loans. +1 to better guidelines. I believe things are consistently enforced, however.
I think a sticky would be a great idea and educating users is always a great idea if it can be done. There is a fine line on this server about what may and may not be said though. As a community, if we see a potential problem (a player who really should not be getting a loan) I believe we should be able to make a comment that a player should be wary of who they are loaning to and make sure to check out the history on the forums. I tend to disagree on the enforcement right now as a quick look at the complaint section will show how sometimes late fees are enforced, sometimes not. Sometimes days pass before a player is banned, sometimes not. I realize that staff is doing everything they can and I understand that they feel if too harsh a penalty is placed, those players will not come back. The problem is that lately too many players are taking advantage of this concept and abusing the generosity and good will of our community. By consistency, I am referring also to the late fees allowed in contracts - such as only allow up to 7 days and 5-10k per day late fees at most. Personally, I think there should be no late fees at all - payments due when they are due and then dealt with simply - payment or temp ban. This would keep these players from wrecking havoc over and over again and causing so much distress.
I do see where you're coming from, however I don't think that idea will show much support from the player-base, as many players like to be compensated for late payments. I guess you could include something in the sticky saying "If you wish to lessen the risk of getting scammed, it is advised that you don't include late fees in your contract." or something along the lines of that. Late fees won't be removed obviously, as it's for one, a private agreement between two players - The said players are ultimately responsible for what they agree to, and two, as I've said, many players like to be compensated for late payments, and sometimes it backfires against them. I do agree that late fees should be consistently enforced however. The staff policy regarding late fees should be made clear for the player base.
I think that considering this is a game where we are technically all supposed to be enjoying our recreational time, it really is a problem that lately people have been really out for blood as far as late fees go. Giving predatory loans is a behavior that makes the experience of playing ecc less enjoyable and should be at least limited to a vague point of reason so a bunch of silly people who didn't think things through or got busy irl aren't banned and thrown into gruesome repayment plans to be unbanned. More players is a good thing. Practices that make it a lot more difficult for other players for simple mercenary gain is bad for everyone and should be reined in. Predatory loans of a certain magnitude are illegal in the real world economy.
This explains perfectly what I was trying to say - remembering that this is the one side of the issue affecting us all currently. The other side is those players that continue to borrow money they either can't, or never intend to pay back. There are those that have been given many opportunities to make good on their debt but choose not to (we also have great examples of players that choose to make things right). This leads to players being frustrated when they lose money and unfortunately what we are seeing now is players competing to see who can "outscam" the other. This is what I hope will be solved.
Although I don't think it's possible to completely cover everything with guidelines, it should at least define upper limits for loans and late fees. As I posted here: https://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/help.143778/#post-789612
That was a great post Kuke - thank you for sharing. I also agree that guidelines (and rules) are not able to cover all as there are always situations that need individual attention or those that will immediately figure out ways of breaking (or bending) them. It does seem you also agree that this loan situation is out of hand lately and you post is exactly correct.
That post perfectly lays out guidelines for responsible lending where you can expect to get paid back rather than get the player banned. Retooled I believe it could be used to define what an illegal predatory loan is in ECC.
Brainstorming results: -make a sticky or sub-forum where players can record if they have loaned to someone. That would be beneficial because it would be useful to know if someone is in debt when you give them a loan -make rules based on late fees. ex. not exceeding the value of the payback
That is an excellent idea as this sticky/subforum would be able to be used by potential lenders in the same way as a "credit check" functions in the real world. It would allow users to see what debt someone already has and it would prevent many of the long chains of users scammed by one extremely foolish or trolly user who then ends up quitting forever or appeals their ban and everyone has to wait months to be repaid. Because obviously one loan with reasonable terms is a great idea for a lender to take money but in ECC there is currently no way to determine how much debt a user may already have taken out short of asking every single other user if they've given them a loan. I'm also going to tag @Nicit6 here as he is no longer staff so hopefully it isn't as rude to do so and because I believe that regulations for lenders is something he may be interested in.
