This is a more of a curious ponder with some ranty stuff thrown in to make it an interesting (and long) read. Raise your hand if you are tired of seeing the same few people constantly flowing through the "Offense, banned, appeal, return, repeat" cycle... I am too. Have you noticed that it is usually for the same 3 things? Yep: cheating in SG, loan scamming, or harassment / swearing. Ever notice that people that get banned for Griefing do it, at the most, twice... then they're never heard from again, while the cheater, loan scammers, and keep returning? Have you ever sat down and gone through the Complaints / Appeals forum and counted how many times you see the same person as the subject for complaints or the author of appeals? I did. It was a very interesting personal "curiosity satisfier" / research project. I have never been Staff on ECC, nor will I ever apply. (I was a Moderator on a different server, so I do have a little experience.) Do you know why I wouldn't want the job? Because while most people will play for a few hours a day, the Staff don't get to "just play, they will have to come running for every little thing. "Someone's griefed my Farm" and "this person is using bad language" and "How do I get tools?" and "Why hasn't Staff approved my application for ..." are all things they have to deal with. Do you know why? Because that is the job that they volunteered to perform. They want to guide the "Lost and Forlorn" that have just arrived. They want to help the new Mayor who is a little overwhelmed with "what do I do now?" They want to enjoy the games we play, see the things we build, inspire us when we lose our motivation, and above all, have fun. As a former (non-ECC) Staff Member, I know that probably the least pleasant part of EVERY SINGLE DAY THEY LOG IN, is the part where they have to deal with the "children" that just can't seem to figure out how to behave. They may call them, in private, the Repeat Offenders. Most of us, the silent majority of players in ECC, call them other things Now, I am also one of the unique members who raise the median age of ECC to above 12. At this time, my CHILDREN are older then the majority of ECC members. I have also gone back to school to get another degree in the last 4 years. Just about every class I ever took had that one [author edit] kid that takes 50% of the teacher's attention. This resulted in the rest of us, 10-25 of us, being left to share the other 50%. We all hated that kid. We never did anything nice for him/her. We never said anything, because we were afraid to catch his attention, which he or she then made it their goal in life to make YOUR life worse. (yes, there is a point to this *grin*) However, I saw things completely different between my time as an 18 year old student and as a 40+ year old student. Most of the teacher's loved having me in their class. Do you know why? Because. I. No. Longer. Cared. I would latch on to those troublemakers and make THEIR life difficult. I would not let them get away with their bad mannered, attention seeking, and sneering attitudes. I said and did the things that the teachers WISHED could have done, but were not allowed. Because these kids parents OBVIOUSLY failed to raise a human being that cares for others. As a father myself, I felt (and still feel) that is my DUTY to the human race to make these [another Author Edit] kids grow up... or learn how to fake it. I do not care if they have a bad home life. I do not care that they had a bad day. I do not care if their (family member / close friend / pet) is having health issues or just passed away. I do not care. Absolutely nothing will ever be an excuse for being a repeat offender. Being someone that is CONSTANTLY getting in trouble is a choice they make every day. No one makes them cheat, or steal, or harass. They choose to do so. Not to say that I don't have sympathy for someone's particular situation. I do. I care deeply if someone is having a bad time in their life and will do whatever I can to make it a little easier. But I will never "compensate" for it by just "letting it slide" when they mess up. "Carrot and Stick", every time. Reward for good behavior, punishment for bad behavior. So, in this holiday season (whichever version you may be celebrating), try to keep your choices aimed at being a better person. People who are nice to others usually have people around them that act the same. However, if you chose unwisely, I will screenshot and write a complaint to Staff. I will also encourage others to do the same. Every. Single. Time. How many more times do you think your Ban Appeals will be approved before Staff just says "xx number of complaints is enough and 95% of the Server wants this repeat offender gone. Let's Perma-ban this [Author Edit AGAIN!]" Not having to read you appeals would probably be a nice Christmas Present they could open every time they log in and don't have to deal with you Be good... or not. It your choice. Happy Holiday of your choice, Staff!
+1 The most frustrating part of it in my mind is that Staff have to spend their time dealing with those people rather than answering questions from newer players.
Well-spoken... Our staff team does a great job of running the server smoothly. They're so busy and yet repeat offenders beg for a ban appeal? No wonder it's lowest priority...
There should be a ban limit then just a ban saying they can never return to ecc... That would b a problem solved and they would stop This post was posted by the fabulous slayer_boy_2000. Feel honoured that this was posted! X D p.s This is a signature
Ban appeals are not the lowest priority however many of them take a large amount of time to decide what needs to happen. (scamming) I would also add that I 100% agree with this post in that troublemakers should be ended, permanently. I would much rather help new users than deal with people who don't care at all.
I honestly was one of those trouble makers. I used to just get on just to see how far I could go until I got banned. Recently, like about a month ago I decided to change. I told myself go atleast a month being the good guy. So there past couple of weeks I have had a great time. I got of for about 6 months just from being so bored of trolling people on ECC. I got on again was banned and appealed and luckily got unnamed. That when I told myself this is enough. I have started projects, socialized, and just had so much more fun I have ever had. I went on a 4 day hunting trip and am returning home right now. I would get to our cabin and get just enough connection to see all of these "repeat offender". I realize why people used to hate me so much earlier. I guess what I'm trying to say Is there should be a ban limit. If one is made I'll probs be over it. I just see where people are tired of that crap and well no wonder people were tired of my crap. I think this post is very truthful and even helps open my eyes even more after these past good weeks. Seriously, to all the past mes and other people being tan noting stop and change.
+1000 I see the same people troll and harass and just get a million "player warned in game". If they can not learn their lesson then they should not be allowed on ECC.
This might be the best thing I've ever read on these forums. I'm fairly new, but I've built up a nice busy city, because town-building just happens to be the part of this game that I enjoy. I've never played SG, I sometimes don't even make it to spawn for weeks at a time, but i have my little corner of Rising, and we have 12 towns, 7 mayors, and ... more than a hundred players. It can be absolutely unmanageable at times, like a little mini-server, I guess (never been staff, no experience there). And you know what I can absolutely do within a certain set of rules, if someone is just so immature as a player that they bring nothing positive to the table? I can tell them to leave. And if I follow the rules, the staff will take the time to make it stick for me, and everyone else has a better time afterwards. I've done it a few times, either evictions or two outright bans for a couple of players who are just [author edit]... that word Stoner used up there. There comes a point where I can make this judgment call about a player: The total that you subtract from other's enjoyment on here is so much more than what you add, that I have decided you're gone. Bye, you go now, don't come back, the end. That thing you did just now, added to the past? That was enough. I started on this server at a time when there was a lot of drama (look at date over to the left). I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now, but I would guess that it creates hesitation in the minds of staff around the concept of permanently banning players. I am not one to suggest that I can read other players' minds, I'm not going to claim that we are losing players to extreme, repeated bad conduct of certain repeat offenders ... but it sure wouldn't surprise me if that were true. I'm not going to keep writing, because I don't know enough about running a server to tell staff what to do (not that that stops some people). I do know how to create and maintain a little corner of the world here, though, where a lot of players have been very happy playing the block game. We have stacked up a lot of little blocks, and not had too many of our little blocks destroyed by jerks, and not had more drama than we have had happy block-stacking. It's not so different, just on a smaller scale. And I agree with everything @gstoner3 said.
I've been asking for harsher punishments for repeat offenders for ... when was my join date? That's right... Jul 29, 2013 it got me banned for "complaining about how the server is run". while I agree with the sentiments behind the OP, I find it highly doubtful there will be any substantive change, anytime soon. I'd also encourage the OP to watch their back, watch what the say, how they say it, and who they say it to, so they don't get banned too. The only advice I can give to anyone, would to watch YOUR back. When you make a transaction. DOCUMENT IT. Document everything you possibly can. Screenshot everything. Every time you pay someone, every time you make an agreement. Go into every single transaction with the belief that this person is trying to scam you. Record your SG games. Post evidence. Staff WILL deal with evidence. But they need it from you to act on. As for what happens with the invariable appeal... We can only hope that saner heads prevail. Let's see how long it takes for this post to get deleted...
+1 Couldn't have said it better. To everyone reading this, just take a few moments to look through all the ban appeals. Notice a pattern? Yup. Many of them are repeat offenders or they are just offenses that everyone is committing. Why? Because they know that being unbanned just requires a tiny bit of effort. If you ask me the problem isn't the people, it's the fact that it is just so easy to get unbanned. People can spend 10 minutes typing a paragraph or two on how they'll never do something again, and then they up and do it again. Sure that's fine if it happens once or twice, accidental or minor bans happen all the time and it's perfectly fine to appeal those. The repeat offenders such as trolls however, get banned for the same reason and appeal the same way every time. I can name more than a few trolls or repeat offenders that have been unbanned so many times I could cry. I suppose that the problem is to a point the people, but the real problem is our system. It is SO EASY to get unbanned. Show a little bit of "remorse" (which I think is faked constantly in ban appeals, it doesn't take a genius to notice this) and you can get unbanned. Argue this if you want, but the fact remains that it is easier than it should be to get unbanned. I've been banned once; accidental macro spam. I've seen people banned 5 times, 6 times, 7 times, 8 times for serious offenses like scamming and trolling (yes, trolling is considered serious in my book.) And guess what? Plenty of them still play. I've seen people that made a slip up then got perma-banned. The system is flawed; and it is a flaw that can be fixed. We could set a limit on amount of bans for each player (depending on offense, accidental or purposefully, etc) or we could simply keep an eye on repeat offenders. And if that offender stops making offenses within the time of say a month, then they won't be watched anymore. I think that there could be a list of watched players the staff has, and while this may seem like plenty of work, think about how much stress for the staff and fellow players it could eliminate. You wouldn't have to worry about the "playground bully" coming to specifically you just because you talked in chat. Staff wouldn't have to worry about the player acting up in say local chat because they'd be able to catch the player on server logs. Then that player would be banned and the staff could focus on more important things like the complaints that get rid of the trolls and offenders. Even if this does get me banned, which I hope it doesn't, I hope that any and all staff members and even normal players understand that the system can be improved on. And it can be improved quite a bit. As gstoner said, maybe make this Christmas a better Christmas by getting rid of those that make this server the place everyone hates. If you haven't noticed, the amount of players on ECC has dropped significantly (though it is rising) and you wonder why? We can do this together and solve the trolls/bullies/scammers/hackers/offenders. Anyone who sees this, have a merry Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanza. Maybe we could make this actually a merry time for the server.
A lively debate on severity of the response, but complete agreement on the "label" First of all, I am not advocating that we, the members of ECC, should be telling the Staff to use the Perma Ban Hammer. I KNOW the Staff has records... there is no way ECC runs as smooth as it does if there weren't (definitely not saying I've seen them, just can't think of any way that ECC would work without them) Second, I am not saying that the Staff needs to "change their ways"... I don't know how the behind-the-scenes ECC works, so I'm sure not going to tell them how to do it "better". How would I know what "better" is without seeing it. Nor do I want "transparency". I don't need to know how the system works, I just already know that it does I have what is called a "grandfather clock". There are quite a few components behind the pretty face on the front, but I don't need to know how many teeth the gears have to know what time it is. I am merely asking the people who could be considered RO's to think. *Think about the reasons BEHIND the behavior that gets them warned, banned, or complained about. *Think about how they feel from cheating, scamming, cursing. Now think about being the victim. *Think about how they might be considered to be the "sandbox bully"... and why. *Think about how many of your ECC friends could be called an "RO". Why are you friends with them? Like I wrote before: I. Do. Not. Care. I don't talk to, listen to, play with, hire, buy from, pay, give town perms, or even stay in proximity to RO's. Actions speak louder than words. There would have to be a lot of good actions to make up for multiple bad ones. You know what I do? "/ignore" Enough people ignore the same person, it's called shunning. No one needs to be banned. But ECC is never going to be somewhere fun to be if no one can see what you write in chat or get no reaction from anyone. No one can force you to listen to them. No one can make you play with someone you don't want to. No name calling, swearing, or insults... just "/ignore" And "/ignore" is just about the standard Staff answer to User Complaints, which means that not only is it legal, it's recommended
Well, uh, I basically couldn't agree more with gstoner, jmichael, and others... but it's late and I'm too tired to write out a whole speech about this. Of course though, huge +1 to this. I'd like to see changes implemented as to how we deal with repeat offenders... but like gstoner said, there's always /ignore.
there is a very limited degree of efficacy in this proposed response. The nature of the server provides a constant churning of new meat for the scammers/trollers/whathaveyou to take advantage of. As a result, they just need to wait a while, and then come back full force with the new meat.
I highly doubt that there will be a rule change on this one. Like gstoner said, we might just have to use that /ignore button... a whole TON.
It is too bad that ban appeals are not the lowest priority then for they should be. They used to be and it was very clearly stated many times by the owner and staff. It is sad to see that has changed.
Incidentally, I've noticed that news of a couple of perma-bans has trickled out lately . . . and it seems like just those people accounted for a huge proportion of recent ban appeal/complaint activity. So, if staff is quietly tightening up on repeat offenders (or if they already were and it's just a coincidence), then good for them. Some players would just be happier somewhere else.
I agree with you that some players would just be happier somewhere else - and there are some players we would be happier with them being somewhere else Also remember that there is no such thing as perma ban here on ECC.
