I've been here for just over 2.5 years now and most of the time life is smooth. Providing donations for people is fun, exciting and helps the server with running costs both in terms of server hosting and development. I have been put into situations in which no actions where taken to correct these donation problems. I wont say scam as I don't believe the people involved did anything on purpose, however it was something they did [guilty till proven innocent - as per EcoCityCraft Rules] that caused a problem. So here I am out of pocket by $300 NZD ($240 USD) and nothing has happened to help fix the problem. In being involved with other locations, I have always gone out of my way to support anyone who has donated any amount to the cause. From those that have simply done a "thank you" donation of one dollar, to those that have paid well over two thousand dollars over a period of time. They all get the same care and treatment, high end donations are done with respect to the player and to us as a provider of services. No one ever brought moderator nor got OP or other staff ranks. The donations have simply gone *poof*. With no accountability, no recourse, nothing to show for it but, "Sorry donations are final and done at your own risk." So, with no safe guards, with no recourse, no protection, nothing, I am sorry but I will never again provide Donations for people using any sort of Payment Plan. -AnokFero
I agree that you raise a very important issue in your statement. There is definitely a risk involved for the donation purchaser, whether it is involved in buying the donation for their personal account, a friend's account, or used in trading for ECD to another player (this is where the most issues seem to be based around, from what I've noticed in-game). But as @Anokfero mentions, there is only so far that it should go. To the aforementioned claim, I feel that you should have been reimbursed for contributions that have literally gone "poof" as you put it, where you received no payment due to a previously signed "payment plan" contract. @Ctoolme I would do the same... :/
Understand fully that 'payment-plans' related to providing donation perks to players may have resulted in you getting burned. Unfortunately this is the mystical realm of the Internet - No one is really known as we interact in our virtual forms, in a virtual sandpit. But when real, hard earned cash is expected to change hands, treat it as in real life: Something is only yours, once you have paid for it. Should you wish to continue to offer your service, you will need to to take a harder line, payment in ECD, or whatever upfront, backed by a contract to support both yourself and the buyer, before buying the other player their requested perks. If they really want it bad enough, they will save up for it. Both parties will remain happy this way.
So you're saying that just because it's the internet we should just deal with it? What anok is suggesting is enforceable with a bit of effort.
Contracts are worthless. Contracts made between players, even if agreed to, cannot replace the "Law" of Eco City Craft. So for example, I cannot find out why a person was banned even if the other person agrees to this in a contract. If a person refuses to return a Star Tool, staff cannot force the player to give it back. They can forcefully request it to happen, threaten to ban the player, but they cannot force its return. On the players [likely] Temp-ban, they still refuse to return the Star Tool, Staff are still powerless to force its return. After a few Temp-ban's, a likely Perma-ban will happen, and still the Star Tool is lost forever. So contracts are useless, they are meaningless and are only there for * and giggles.
What I am saying, is that because it is the internet - don't be trusting. With considerable server experience, the retrieval of items can be done, when only having to manage a few players. Inventories can be accessed, items removed and returned to players etc. With the right plugins even chest activity can be drilled down on. But with a server the size of ECC, this can easily become a huge task to effectively exercise, as each player will need to be supported in the same manner. So my guess is that the server staff have taken the stance to have players be accountable for their decisions and be careful in who and what they deal with in the game. Only when the environment has claimed a tool - lava or despawn after a drop is it lost forever. Contracts, although digitally worthless should either party renegade on the agreement, it does provide the staff with a documented base on which to follow up on.
Or if its placed in an Enderchest, trade sign, suffocation damage While Echests can be accessed by Staff, they have to be there all the time.
Which is exactly what I called you out on? So what if ecc is a huge-ass server, with the right management and implementation of proper systems, anything is possible. "Don't be trusting"? Are you kidding me?! Should I hide behind my own little layer of anonymity scared of the faceless evildoer's lurking around the digital corner, don' be rediculous! Just because a few users decide to break the rules doesn't mean we, the many who do follow these rules have to base our interactions on hostile preconceptions. We're here to have fun, not to hurt each other
Trust, much like respect are too easily afforded to individuals over the internet, you as the player are your own first line of protection, is where I am angling at. Some may find this simple approach logical, others, may it be being naive, inexperienced etc, may well struggle with the concept. I 100% agree that the majority are here to have fun, the 'whole' point of Minecraft. However as with real life, it is only a few that cause pain, suffering and financial loss, because of these few we have to impose rules and adapt to processes - Just because certain individuals have the perception that they are 'entitled' or know they are safely behind the faceless curtain of the internet you mention. Perhaps Andrew and server staff will browse over this discussion and look at reviewing a few server administration processes. Perhaps when a donation 'sponsor' has been defrauded, the perms can be retracted from the guilty party and credited back to the donor - Either to 'resell' or use themselves in some form as a ECC voucher. That way the server does not loose revenue, and the 'donor' is not left out of pocket as per the OP's post.
I have to agree with Sharky on this - I do not accept payment plans for donations that I provide for players. I feel that selling features not only helps support the server, it allows players without the ability to purchase to enjoy perks the server has to offer. There are so many stickies and warnings about safe transactions on ECC that the staff has made clear what can be expected in monetary transactions. I do believe that you are right Harry that it is sad that there will always be the few that will always break the rules but I do not think it is fair to assume that the staff could ever begin to solve the many issues that are dealt with on a daily basis in any other way than with the safeguards and warnings put into place currently. In my 9 months or so on the server, I have noticed that the owner and staff continually strive to improve the process of protecting everyone and punishing felons as much as possible. Harry, I wish that everyone had the same attitude as you that we should just play nice together and have fun but sadly there will always be some that commit out and out fraud or find ways to "push" the system.
I don't agree with this. You have to go back to the history of the player and you've gotta check if they've gotten banned for scamming. You've also gotta look at how long they've been on ECC, their rank and their donating history. I'm pretty sure you didn't look into many of the listed stuff, getting scammed $75 usd by upmoon.
You just chose to do it with 2 people who had been on the server for a combined total of less than 6 months. It's your own fault. I've done payment plan donations before in the past, they worked out fine. Just don't do them for silly people.
My last 2c on this thread, the term "Due diligence" comes to mind should those who wish to afford players a payment plan based arrangement, non-the-less the wolves in sheep clothing will remain amongst us. Happy crafting all, now let's get back to punching trees!
The simple fact of it is, that while this will always happen, there are more things ECC can do. The length a person has been on is irrelevant. To keep getting donations from players, players are easily able to trade things using game mechanics. ECC is the only location in which I have ever been scammed and told - "Your fault, do better next time, not our problem so bugger off." In cases where staff have banned players, they are able to see they have taken this path. They can easily see that the donation was completed, and that the funds where not given as reported. I'm not looking for a refund here people, just a credit to be applied to a player that one isn't banned, and two is going to provided better outcomes to the server. There are many things I could do with that money - and still keep it in game, for example, top up the credit so that it equals 100usd and Raffle it off. I could [and was actually wanting to do this] top it up to 100usd and give it away to someone that would make a few images for the forums and game server. Instead, I just reject that sort of help and feel that why bother help promote ECC to others in a positive way, where in the event * hits the fan, you get told, "Your fault!" constantly.
well i don't know what to say. yes people will scam and yes there is more the server might be able to do, but there are hundreds of people maybe thousands. so its not possible for staff to be able to keep every thing in line just make sure that your trading, or working, with some body you know and who has not scammed had ban appeals etc. and payment plans are asking for some body to scam you.
Since this would to have be applied across the board and others would be demanding this as well, and then some banned person returns and doesn't have the feature/item, ... This could easily get very messy very quickly. Honestly, I believe, while not ideal, the current way to deal with these types of scams/complaints/disagreements is pretty fair. You know exactly what risk you are putting yourself into when you enter into the deals. Trust me, I felt like a schmuck every time someone got banned that I loaned money to or whatever, so I get where your coming from. But I don't think the solution you are offering will make things better. It will just make people making these risky deals feel safer, it will act like a paper tiger, and increase the problems associated with giving things upfront to people instead of fixing them. C.Y.A. - It's the law of the land. Always will be.
