Denied [Network Wide Suggestion] Reform to the loan system on ECC

-1 i have to give this a minus 1 as 5+ years ago when I was a idiot i got banned for 'Loan scamming' For not paying someone back 30k in time.

Now I'm a trusted member on the server and have put in $1000+ into donations and have never done anything like that since.

Your proposal would potentially reduce the amount of funding the server could receive in the future if something like this was to be put into place.

It is down to you as a player to complete your checks on people before you loan to them. If you don't play enough to know if someone is trusted then ask other people in the community.

 

I mean just be picky with who you loan to, loan scamming really isn't as big of a problem as you make it out to be here - the rules aren't going to be changed and new policies put in place just because you're annoyed you got scammed. If you're having this much of a problem with getting scammed, just stop loaning to people, no ones forcing you to loan out money lol.

It's just you having this problem, so you make the database for your own personal use if you really want one this bad. It's your problem so you can fix it, don't insist other people need to fix a problem only you are having.

-1

 

If there was no risk in a loan we would all be doing it to make lazy money. you wouldnt have a problem if you had got your money back so suck it up kid youre just salty

-1

 

As a premier loan provider on ECC, -1

Simply put- you're suggesting 2 things.
1. Ban them from loans using a list
2. If someone loans someone from this proposed list, take no action if it get scammed.
Try tracking every single loan ban in the history of ECC, I'll wait. This includes repeat offenders. Loaning is a huge part of ECC, forum contracts are probably not even 1/3rd of the loans given on ECC (I know they aren't in my experience). Checking the list every time youre in game is a hassle and no one is going to do it which leads to the 2nd suggestion.
While yes, it is up to the people who give out loans to check who theyre loaning to, its up to the loan taker to pay it back. Nothing will then stop the loan scammer from taking out a 2mil loan and then be like "oops not going to pay you" and stick on the server because "ecc will not enforce the law upon them."

They'll be instantly unbanned with the notion that they need to pay their debt under a certain timeline. Getting banned is not a "get out of jail free" card (unless it was a loan from before the reset). Again as I said, its the loaners responsibility to know who theyre loaning to.

Ok lets deny $60+ from coming into the server for a ban that is something that can be fixed. Sounds like a whole lot of work that the SA+ team needs to do for something that they shouldn't need to do. Repeat offenders get banned. Sure you lose your money, but overtime if they decide to come back youll make it back. Besides, if its a loan from over a year ago, surely you wouldve made up the money.

Loans are a risk. Not just minecraft but in life too. Be smart in who youre loaning to.
Loaning to a builder who just joined? Not smart
Loaning to a troll with a large ban history of trolling? Not smart
Loaning to someone who has no history of a ban and seems reputable? Smart
Loaning 2million dollars at a time to someone you dont know? Not smart
While doing /ignore and turning off their computer is considered "easily avoidable" so is loan scamming if you're smart about it.
While it does suck when you get scammed by a seemingly trustworthy user, for starters you dont know if it was an unavoidable or something popped up as well.

Tldr: -1

 

-1 You don't know investment.

The higher the reward, the higher the risk.
Publishing a server list of known loan scammers wouldn't help stop loan scams from happening. You cannot eliminate the risk of a loan without some form of insurance, which opens an entirely different can of worms. I understand your frustration. As someone who does small-ball loans to builders and residents all the time, I constantly see my money gone down a hole that will never spit it back up. How do you compensate? You put collateral in the loan.

If they don't pay it back, you have them agree that something they own is yours. This can be enforced by the server and by towns when its something like their plot (in my case, for builders or residents), or their town(s) (For Mayor+). If they have absolutely nothing of value that they cant use to ensure repayment, don't loan to them. It's that easy.

 

If you want, im sure you can create your very own list of loan-scammers but I dont think the staff would be willing to search through the years of history to list down every member who has scammed someone

 

I read a lot of loan scamming reports and appeals over the years, both on staff and when I was bored on the forums. Of the reports where the “loan scammer” actually replied to the complaint filed against them, a good majority of them were because irl stuff (the common theme is school) came up (it’s up to speculation if those are true or not, but I digress). Some of these loans are to be repaid off in over a month or more. Things do change, especially in a longer time frame. ECC is a game, and while it sucks to be scammed, we shouldn’t severely punish people for a rather small infraction that might be out of their hands.

And as for punishing people who loan scam continuously, we do kind of do that already. When they get unbanned multiple times for loan scamming (specifically off of a same loan or payment schedule), then the revised schedule becomes less lenient. I’m totally fine with that as the harshest punishment.

TL;DR: loan scamming is one of the lowest ECC crimes (just ahead of direct swearing). People accidentally do it, then typically end up finishing it off after their first appeal (or even before the user complaint is finished). We don’t need a blacklist if someone messes up one loan. Most people have probably done it in one way or another (I certainly have before).

 

Staff have shot down the idea of having a list of rule breakers before. If I remember correctly a few years ago there was an issue where someone wanted to publish a list/did publish a list on the forums of builders who had been banned for griefing towns. The list was meant as something mayors could reference when deciding to sell someone a plot.

While yes, it is the griefer's (or in this case, loan scammer's) fault for getting banned, anyone can look through the ban appeals archive to find appeals for people who have been banned and can therefore find out how trustworthy someone is without needing them to be outright listed publicly on a kind of message board similar to what is proposed. This kind of list would just create unnecessary drama, nearly all of the appeals for loan scamming can be found in the ban appeal archive, its much more subtle to search that way and would be less likely to cause issues.

And what @Jdawger said, in my experience the majority of scamming appeals are from players who have only been banned once, maybe twice for scamming, and that happened as a result of something happening IRL that prevented them from coming on. Shit happens and IRL always should come before ECC. I get that people shouldn't take loans if they don't have time to play, but some people genuinely have unforseen emergencies come up and can't help but fail to repay the loan.

I agree that repeat offenders for loan scamming should be treated more harshly, I just don't think this is the right approach to tackling the problem.

 

Making it legal to scam others after you've scammed others too many times is a big-brain approach to this issue.

 

While I understand getting scammed is frustrating, loaning has never been something server supported in the ways of reimbursement, as far as I am aware the verified sponsor insurance clause has never had to be used so far either. If you decide to loan money to a user it is not the Administrations job to refund that money as it was your decision. To the point of banning people from taking loans, how are we supposed to moderate that? I do not see a single way of saying "XXXX user is not allowed to take out a loan, if they do the will be punished" It is the users responsibility to go through and see if that user is trustworthy, this is extremely easy to do by viewing the complaints/ban appeals area and looking if they have a history. I also recommend maybe looking at features purchased, time spent on the server, etc, if they decide to still loan out the money that is at the fault of the user giving the loan.

As for this, sure they know they will be unbanned, however mind you it isnt simply you can return to the server all is forgiven, the user is required to pay back the loan, if they dont they are banned again, its not something as simple as getting banned for say grief, harassment, or other things where you appeal your ban and then are able to return to the server without having to make it right.

In my 8+ years on the server I have given loans worth several millions privately, on top of that I am a part of @Zedoker's Bank and have quite a bit of money invested with him, so I have been a part of the loaning process for pretty much as long as I have been on the server, I have been scammed during this time, sometimes for large amounts and with users who never returned to the server, not a single time did I think well this should get paid back to me by the administration. No, it was my decision to loan out the money, it was a Risk that I decided to take in order to possibly make some profit, it was not a decision that the server at any point influenced, or supported.

I am a very big -1 on this suggestion as I just dont see a point, if you are worried about being scammed and cant risk losing said money don't give out loans.

 

Alright I apologize as I misunderstood, however I still stand behind my view on it being completely unnecessary to have money refunded to users who give out loans. I just cannot get behind any part of this suggestion.

 

Big -1 lol, people muck up and don't pay back in time, it is the players decision of who to loan to.

 

big +1 on this @Sizsizma10 you’ll know that I mean ​