Hello, a bunch of players were discussing the economy today so I wanted to make a thread to memorialize suggestions/discussion if someone cares enough to want that.
The main suggestion(s) were basically to remove magic tools/items. Yes it would be unfair to a lot of players but it would help the economy a lot, as would it help player retention. Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to go about this, in the end if they were removed although most would be happy, many would be upset/disappointed because of the money they invested into the server to obtain those tools. Going back to how old ecc was with just star tools and no super OP magic tools and money making methods would be pretty good in the eyes of most current players. Again it wouldn't be easy removing these tools but maybe if there was something the whole community could agree upon that would help.
So I agree with the general sentiment here, magic tools are way too strong for established players and effectively unobtainable for the new player base. However wholesale elimination is just not something that's realistically going to happen. One solution I came up with was to assign unique durability to magic tools. So each magic tool would have a set number of uses (it could be very high) before it is lost forever. That would maintain the current population of magic tools that exist for a long while, but it would eliminate magic tools over time while still allowing them to provide substantial benefits while they exist. Obviously, this suggestion could be done in addition to other solutions.
Im interested in seeing the economic numbers from yesterday (The First Magic Day) and see how much of that value is spent during the 9 days of offpeak magic. At the present time, the ability to see whether Magic Tools are still overpowered being used once every 9 days is still not proven, at least not statistically through this current method of having Magic Tools. I would personally like to see the Online Shop Crates be added to the Star Shop so that people who do not want to use their own money can have a chance of obtaining these tools without needing anyone else. I would also like to see a In Game Only Star Crate so that people could roll the crate and chance their luck at rolling a tool over just picking one at the shop. Making this In Game Only also encourages people to play the game, though people can still buy the xp and buy the crates that way, I personally still like the idea of having a key that can roll just the star tools, to add the element of fun and surprise. --- Like I said, I would actually like to see the numbers before saying they are going to break this economy. Just because they aren't accessible to all, doesn't mean they have to be yeeted. If they aren't as bad as people think they are in the economy. Then making accessibility for all types of players can be implemented. No, this doesn't mean I'm pro Magic Tools, or against them. I understand some people who don't want to loose there tools, (As I am one of those who spent hours upon hour grinding for the money to obtain them in game and not via the shop) and I understand people who are disheartened that they cant obtain them or think they are overpowered (As I was one of those too when they originally came out and couldn't buy crates like others). But imo it's just too soon to know the impact Magic Tools will have on the economy in this new method of deploying them. As i said, areas for accessibility for all need to be looked at as long as it's viable for the economy. Discussion is also healthy for a community, no matter what peoples opinions are. So i'm ofc interested in what everyone else thoughts are on the matter.
So after the first magic day, I was extremely disheartened... I do not own any magic tools, and so spent magic day running round with my eff 4 fortune 3 pick.... I grinded most of the day yesterday, and made the same, if not less, than someone logging on for an hour to use a magic tool. I realised that even now, it feels like as a player who does not want to spend USD I cannot compete in 2.0. That is unless I buy a god drop and spend USD. Honestly, it feels like the p2w aspects are even more pronounced than ever before. I'd wager that the best way to make money now in 2.0 is not play ECC for 8 days, get a job, and on the 9th day use USD magic tools and book a holiday off. And ultimately I feel that a system that discourages people playing for 90% of the time is not healthy for the community. "But Kenny, you can pay people ecd to buy features for you!" I hear y'all say. That is true, however I saw features were about 7k per USD. At solid grinding that I was doing, I would be able to get the required amount needed for a single god drop in about 2-3 weeks maybe. And in that time there would be another 1, maybe 2 magic days, where again I would be unable to compete, potentially driving the cost of features up. This constantly changing goalposts of the magic number needed to get a god drop means that realistically, I will not be able to get a god drop via conventional methods. Honestly, it feels like this system is rigged for old time users who were able to get magic tools more easily under pre reset conditions, where god drops were not just able to be gotten with an objective fixed goal, but the USD prices for them were also cheaper (starting price for a god drop is now $180, far more expensive than many standalone games). And yes, I have heard the argument before "well welcome to the real world sun", and to that, I honestly say that this isn't the real world. This is block game. I am sure many people will agree with me on this statement in that the real world, kinda sucks sometimes. And we just need a bit of block game as escapism from that. That is, ultimately, why I enjoy gaming, and for me, I question whether am actually getting that from ECC.
Agreed with most of what's stated here. I think a price nerf across the board really just raised the disparity between non-Magic users and Magic users, since things like the Magic Rod exist (which give only tropical/puffers), provide inherent /sell hand boosts via the items, or generate tons of Xp and Drops. This makes regular (non-Magic) grinding that much more inefficient comparatively. I fished for like.... 2, maybe 3 hours, and I made almost 200k. Meanwhile I'd have to spend 8 hours to make a third of that mining. It's too soon to definitively say, but I can say this- the root of the problem is the existence of these tools. Everything has to be balanced around them, which renders everything else obsolete. Nerfing prices and prestiges across the board doesn't prevent Magic users from getting their triple XP/better drop rates of higher priced items/ /sell hand boosts; it prevents regular users from having a chance. That's my observation, and whether the numbers reflect that or not, we will see. I do, however, give andrew credit where credit is due- despite the thousands of $$$ dropped on Magics, he severely limited their use given the outcry. It definitely is a step in the right direction. Like I said, though, it seems all economy changes have to be balanced around Magic now, and raising everything across the board would cause the inflation we're trying to avoid, unless Magic is even MORE limited than it is now (once a month?). I think Magic needs to be nerfed again. Lower the /sell hand boosts more from armor and items, and re-raise base economy prices. The Magic /sell hand boosts could be hella small and the Magic Tool side-effects (duplicated drops and OP enchants) would still make them very powerful, and would still net you great money combined with Magic Items/Armor, while raising the base economy prices would make regular grinding more viable. TL;DR , haven't seen the numbers yet, but from what I'm observing: Nerf the Magic again, not the base economy. Don't punish the regular users.
While im to agree that Magic tools are not great for the economy I wanted to make sure I put my foot forward on this as well with a small recap of my magic day.. **first wanted to mention that im staring out by sharing a lot about what i did personally which probably has no meaning to most of you, but kinda wanted to give background/info** Going into ecc 2.0 i prepared for what I knew the server was going to be. This is not a surprise to anyone that we had magic tools, nor that we had prestiges etc. I prepared to set up figos (prestige shop) and prepared to grind like a mfer the first magic day. Personally, i did exactly what I wanted to do in the first 7 days the server was open... and on magic day I spent my time as following: Fortuning Iron ore: 6-7hours Using spawner setup for EXP (not selling, but letting someone else collect items and sell): 3-4 hrs Gathering seeds/planting farm: 1hr selling shit: 1-2hr fishing 1hr I spent WAY too much time online during magic day as u can see above... and between owning a prestige shop, using my connections to obtain spawners & tools i came out 5mil ahead. I have never been a big fan of magic/mythic tools... and would rather see the server without them although I don't see that happening. but I attribute most of my success/balance from this week to the fact that i prepared, and executed a plan more than the tools were too op. Not saying thats the case for every tool/situation, I believe the tools gain too much too fast, and ideally, wouldn't be here... but in a world where everyone pre-reset knew exactly what we were getting into and environment a "magic day" would have, i feel like an argument to get fully rid of magic tools has long passed and people might have to realize that sometimes there are new normals. Our new normal just needs to be more hashed out, which i think will happen. Andrew has even said we have to get through our first magic day at some point.... its a trial for everyone, and in time I think leveling some things out or providing opportunities for those that don't currently have the tools, is a step in the way we need to go.. While i think this is a unique idea, having a tool like that breaking after certain usage is kinda in that same boat of i dont think will happen... now something like useability per week or per magic day where you can use it for x amount of time, or durability I think could be some kind of happy medium where you can have the tool.. use it... but has limitations... Forcing you to buy multiples of same tool if you wish to use longer than the durration etc. Overall i think magic tools are here to stay, but there should be a push to be less p2w accessible, or even not P2W at all!
I don't know enough about magic tools to know if this would be feasible, but I'd like to see magic tools (on top of magic day) use a cooldown system like McMMO. So in order to activate the magic tools ability, you'd right click (or another button) to activate the tool, which has a set duration. After the duration has expired, the tool just becomes a normal tool until the end of magic day. Rinse, repeat. Still gives those that have invested the chance to capitalize on a short window. If done this way, the cooldown would be shared among any magic tool of the same type, as to not encourage getting multiples. I would much prefer something like this to the system we have now. I think that the more in game achievements there are, the better. And what better way to entice people to engage with the server, then have rewards akin to magic tools or prestige's for these achievements. Or the magic tools could be treated like star tools, and just bought via nether stars. Though, like was said this is just bypassed by purchasing ECD and/or nether stars, which I would personally like to see removed from the store as it just limits the ability/incentive to earn in game rewards.
We examined our first Magic Day and made the following changes. Further changes / impacts will be examined following our next Magic Day. To make it clear however, we will never remove Magic tools due to how many purchased them and how much of an entire system we now have deep in our code regarding them. We will however continue working at balancing Magic Tools all the while keeping their obviously needed advantage.
So, everything i see is that the ECC economy is now based off what the Magic tools can make as a profit. The new Discord post, gearing everything to the Magic Tools. What about the folks that will never have a magic tool, what about them? Is ECC becoming a, " BYOMT" Bring Your Own Magic Tool.
Yes, BYOMT. I can't even begin to attempt to respond to that. It makes no sense. We are reducing how much Magic makes and how frequently Magic makes said amount. What are you even getting at. The response to the Discord post has been nothing but good lol.
well, Im sure SORRY for this, i see we are geared only to those folks. The rest of us, well have fun trying to keep up, Me included.
Example, you just got rid of selling a block that a magic tool makes huge profit(warped wart) Those of us that dont have the Magic, cant now farm them. My point, Prices are only geared to what the MAGIC tool can do.
Show me one person who farmed those blocks for profit in the nether without any actual Magic axe. It's completely irrelevant. And that's beyond the point as well, you can sell it to players, and if there's a market for it, you'll still earn off it. This is in no way affecting any major part of EcoCityCraft in anyway at all. BYOMT!
I think the changes are a good start, and waiting until the next, magic day for further ones is probably a good idea.
