So I think this issue keeps coming up in suggestions and stuff where it may not always belong. I have decided to list here in order to start a discussion and share some of my ideas. I will approach this from the perspective of a new(ish) builder [not myself]. 1) Paying for donations will create a money-sink. This should drive down inflation (theoretically), which would make things easier for builders. 2) People will have less money, so they will want to make more money...which would drive up prices on the basics (probably won't be too much, as few things are actually needed by the player universe that they can't easily get themselves). 3) MAJOR POINT: water (for example) will cost $225K. Assuming our new builder doesn't have a town, msword, eff7, or a good friend...that means he must work nearly 24 hours to be able to place water (assuming 10K/hour). To put in perspective, that is approximately the usual price of resident, mayor, and water put together. 4) Now, in order to properly use an eff7, one essentially needs pyro+. That will be 450k. I don't think I need to say more...our poor builder will never make it to the level current players are at. 5) final perspective: before I was willing to buy an eff7 (for 800k), I wanted pyro+, extcmds+, and /back (bare minimum). At 6k/USD (usually I paid 5K while things were on sale...but we'll used 6k/USD for comparison), that cost me a total of: 180k (pyro+) 600k (extcmds+) 90k (back) 800k (eff7) TOTAL: 1,670k Under the proposed system, this would have cost me: 450k (pyro+) 1,500k (extcmds+) 225k (back) 800k (eff7) TOTAL: 2,975k (more than a row 1 spawnshop) Now, I know this isn't set in stone yet...but instead if the aforementioned 15k/USD system, I propose that each feature's value and "basicness" be evaluated...and that instead of a flat conversion, we make more essential features cost less for the sake of the community's growth.
Where is it implied that every single builder ought to have an eff7 or msword withing the first few days of being on the server? This is a hardcore server and those that decide to play here and succeed are willing to put some effort into their success. I mined for literally weeks before I earned my eff7 and fully expect every other player to do the same. Nobody said that this was to be an easy server for everyone to play on and builders that quit because they have to expend effort are not going to be missed, however, those that have worked hard and quit because everything is being given to others will possibly quit and will be missed. I welcome all builders who are willing to expend the effort required to succeed and is why I offer the builder bonus that andrew used to offer. It is a way to encourage and support rather than just give them everything as they do have to show some effort. There are many players that are able to rank up to mayor and therefore own their own town within a week if they are willing to work for it - we see it all the time without the whining - and those players are the future of our community, not those that just want to take... take... take. One last point, our new players should never expect to earn 10k per hour to start - with a kit getting started, 3-6k per hour is much more realistic. New tools (without any features) will easily improve that number to 5-7k per hour. This is not unreasonable in my opinion.
Where is it mentioned in my post that every single builder ought to have an eff7 or msword within the first few days of being on the server? I don't think a player should have an Eff7 or Melon sword within a few days. In fact, the ease of obtaining an Eff7/msword is not discussed within my post. What is discussed is the incredibly greater (2.5-3x) expense involved in obtaining features. For the record, I was earning almost 10k/hour within a week of joining the server. It's not hard. I got Resident rank and bought a town for 30k, and upped that to 14k/hour with my only feature at the time being water (which I didn't even need to be honest). I understand that it's a hardcore economy server, and that's the reason that I'm still here. But I think that 15k/USD (at current prices) is obscenely overpriced for some features. It begs the question of whether features are even worth it. And while, as a server owner, it might make no difference because money isn't being donated for those features either way, the impact on the in-game economy is not insubstantial. Mayor rank would be less than half the price of the ability to place water!! On the one hand, it creates a fascinatingly complex market for those with features to be able to charge for services (finally). And on that note, I'm quite pleased with such a change. However, it makes the gap between rich and poor absolutely massive. It would take months and months (nearly a thousand hours of dedicated money-making) for any new builder to catch up with a current [VIP] player. And I agree that this would weed out most uncommitted players. But the two issues to address are: 1) would it weed out all players? and 2) does it make sense to charge so much for features that are rather essential for successful money-making (and which the majority of the dedicated playerbase already has gotten for so relatively cheap)?
Water should be 50k. The price is BS PyroPlus : 150k. I agree, 450k+ just for immortality to fire? Outrageous Back: 50k: Its a command everyone should have And /tpa...350k? Lol why would anyone pay $350,000 just to be able to help tp people? Prices need to be customized, basic feats need to be no more than 50k.
Ive gone through and calculated costs at $15,000/ECD per USD at the normal shop prices for the base features: It would cost $8,550,000 ECD to purchase all of these features
What if we did something like water comes free with Mayor, and President gives you a few extra homes? That could help reduce the massive gap that will open between established and newer players. I was also thinking to that a player really needs water when he/she gets a town and wants to build stuff, particularly farms, and multiple homes when they get a second town with their president app and need to easily teleport back and forth between towns if they aren't next to each other. So it makes sense you get those features at that point.
Excellent chart Android! This makes it clear that 15k is much too low and easy to get. 20-25k would seem much more reasonable when compared to ranks and other features.
I went back and compiled all of the features from the shops, Features, Features Upgrades, Features Upgrades+, and Features Upgrades++. A link to the spreadsheet can be found here- Notice, that If I wanted all of the features from those categories, That would set be back $19,725,000. At current rates, only shy of 8 million. I think that instead of basing the costs off of the current server store, they should be priced accordingly to usefulness of the feature.
It's $3285, per this thread: https://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/threads/donation-features-goals-freddyagogo.145431/#post-802950 Freddy only has $3315 because he accidentally had extcreations with extcreations++. Edit: It's $49,275,000
Ill make sure I put that in there. I just dont want to add every single item in the shop, just the ones in the Features Categories .
I would hope we can assume a new builder doesn't have a town, msword, or eff vii. I would even hope the same would go for resident. There is one thing our new builder does have that you didn't mention. A great community full of higher ranked players willing to palace water for free or a minimal charge. This can also be applied to over a half dozen other services/features. I, for one, wouldn't trust a new builder with that power without first showing some invested interest correlating to time spent. Looking at the perspective of a new builder... and now we are talking about properly using an eff vii? How about they work their way up to one, instead of getting one as a builder? Pyro+ ? For goodness sake. I didn't get that feature until I was president. I think you are expecting these builders to have so much, while others of us see this as a re-balancing back to the days of earn as you learn. I'll say it now: If you are a newish builder who is worried about how to handle an eff vii pick, you may need to re-evaluate your goals. Great thinking long term, but not realistic for most in the short term. Efficiency vii picks aren't meant for everyone. They are the elite tool for mining. You can still do pretty well with an eff V. I know, I have been on the server for 3 years and just got my first eff vii pick a few months ago. I'm not saying I expect everyone to take as long as I did. I am saying an eff vii pick is not a required tool. All you need for one of these tools is a subscription to a repair service. Before I had my features, I had multiple subscriptions. Cost me between 1k and 3k each. I had unlimited repairs. And when I needed a repair, I would plop down a chest, have them tp to me, place the items in, and they would repair the tools. Then I would go on my way, and they would go on theirs. This was even after I was mayor. Having the features, again, is not expected of newish builders. In time, they can work up to them. But until then, they can be a part of the community and the community can help them along. Sure Pyro+ might be one of the first features to get if you are going to mine a lot near lava. But I wouldn't expect a builder to have it. So, in closing, looking at the perspective of a new builder... Welcome to ECC. Get to know some of your fellow players, and you'll be fine.
People keep harping on my example of eff7...I used that because it is the *ultimate* non-biased or demand-based money-making method (as of right now). Therefore, it is a reasonable, agreeable "end-point" of an economy discussion: everything after that is no longer building towards faster non-demand-based income. And yes, I really do understand that it's not the beginning of the economy server life. Stop assuming I have no intelligence, and read my ideas with the assumption that I'm not an idiot. Look at my features bought, not my green name. I really, really, really know that builders don't have them. Or have any way to get them (trust issues for good reasons). What nobody seems to be addressing is the much, much increased proposed gap between "I just started on this server" and "I can now make money in the fastest way possible." And no, that's not the only thing about this server: there's a great community. But I am speaking from a purely economical perspective. What about the gap? (Especially given that the rich who DO have Eff7's also have all the features to maximize their income...and builders will now take 2.5x longer to get there...or more)
YOU are the one saying you were talking from "the perspective of a new(ish) builder" and then went on a rant about eff vii's, or in your words "the end-pont." No one else is to blame. If I thought you were a complete idiot, I wouldn't even bother to respond as I wouldn't believe you could see the error in your thinking. I do not mean disrespect, but rather wish to show where I think you went wrong. "What about the gap?" What about it? No matter what happens, the rich will always be able to get richer faster than a new person. There will always be a gap that is ever increasing. You can't get around it, no matter what you suggest. It just sounds like you are suggesting to have the newer people get rich faster. And as I said before, I do not think that is a good solution. I think it would cause more problems than it would solve. You act like there is an issue with the cost of features being 2ok/USD. I don't think there is one. I will add one last point. Maybe it is the crowd I hang out with on here, I don't know, but 1k, 10k, 100k per USD.. wouldn't deter them. It just means we would work that much longer and chip away one feature at a time. Again, I spent 3 years on this server with no Eff VII pick. I wasn't focusing on what the *rich* were making. I was plugging away on my goals, one by one. I never thought myself as one of the *rich* until people started to say it a few weeks ago. I just thought of myself as an average player. I'm not comfortable thinking myself as rich. I still have too many goals to slow down. No matter what happens, 10k, 15k, 20k, I'll keep plugging away.
You say grinding like it is a bad thing - tell that to the thousands of users that have spent hours upon hours mining, farming, fishing, or any other "chore" offered here. Tell that to the players that spend their time working hours on end to provide fun activities for our community. Tell that to our awesome staff that spend countless hours to give us a great place to play multiplayer minecraft. It is my hope that we can come together as a community and better explain to new players how the server works and how to earn money. We also need to do better explaining why there should be no expectation that a player that has only played for a couple of weeks will have the same features as those that have been here for years and why water is not necessary, especially for a builder that does not even own a town yet.
