I was very unhappy to discover today that speed building has been disabled. The donator community received no notification of the change, or an explanation. For those that are unaware of speed building, it is simply placing/using blocks or items at a fast rate using hardware (mouse/keyboard) or a mod. It is really only useful when a player has fly/speed. If you have fly/speed, you can place a line of blocks, at speed 4, without missing a space. Some of us have grown accustomed to this kind of play, and it is night and day when compared to placing blocks at normal speed. Flying/speed is night and day when compared to walking/running, and I doubt flyers would even want to play anymore if they lost fly/speed. So flyers that do not know about speed building, imagine loosing fly in order to get a hint at how some of us feel. Emu says he is quiting and never coming back. And I would say that some of us feel similarly. As a considerable donator to this server, I feel like I deserve a chance to start a discussion/debate on this, and I would also like know the original reasoning behind the removal. I think the debate should focus on the following things: 1: Possible misuses 2: Possible benefits 3: Donation possibilities (Speed Building being included with fly, or an entirely new donation) In my eyes, I never misused this ability, and was very thoughtful not to do so. I simply built a couple of buildings faster than "normal," which helps the development of the server. With an Eff 5 tool, I can strip blocks away at speed 4, but without speed building, I can't perform the opposite. And I honestly do not know if I can play like that. I think most of us are on this server to have fun. If I'm not intruding on others fun with this ability, then why take it away from me? I'll add more on my position with this issue as people begin to post their thoughts.
I 100% agree with BurnsBrightly, the removal of the ability without notification is completely uncalled for. I have read the rules multiple times and the use of such a feature is in no way in violation of them. It is not a hack, exploit or anything of that nature, as Burns stated it is a simple hardware script or client-side mod that automatically clicks the use button every tick of the server, and is really only applicable/useful to fly/speed donators. In my opinion i never misused this ability either, i have simply used it to build a few wool and glass buildings and to place dirt, glowstone and water for a portion of a 200 by 200 farm another user is building. If this ability does anything in terms of the economy, it makes me spend more ecodollars in a smaller time frame rather then make it, trust me going to the spawn store for 1000 blocks every 5 minutes isn't all that fun; and i have never made anymore ecodollars then i previously was in the same time frame by using it. The only thing i can even fathom being an issue, which really isn't an issue, is the ability to plant wheat seeds faster, but the time difference between planting and regrowing is so unnoticeable it's funny. From a technical standpoint if the replanting of seeds faster is the problem, then seeds are altogether a separate class and could be blocked alone by the same permissions(i'm assuming here, but seems like the easiest block and most likely culprit behind this) that blocked ".*" in the first place, but again it really doesn't matter how fast you plant the seeds, the time between replanting and full growth is still ~an hour. It's mind-boggling really, i can honestly smell the jelly oozing from over here. If this is re-allowed i'd gladly write a tutorial on how to use it, even though it's ridiculously easy to install. If this ability must be a donator feature then so be it, i'll most likely donate for it; but would much rather just see it be combined with "fly/speed" as that's ability that is really required for it. As it stands a few other players and myself are up in arms as to continue on this server or not, but hopefully the server whom we've all but dedicated our lives to will pull through and do the right thing and allow it, or provide a reasonable explanation against it. Also, this new block has affected my abilty to harvest pumpkins at speed 4 with my efficiency 5 diamond axe, and that is completly unacceptable!
Many users were finding it highly unfair. I know you guys spent money on fly and/or hardware, but it still feels highly unfair to most people, who barely have money for a decent headset or the ability to donate without begging parents. And when it comes to mods, we don't allow mods that give users "unfair advantages." Mods are also free, so tying that into the argument with being a donator doesn't do much... Some users may also be using hacked clients, which is strictly against the rules. That's one of the problems - we can't know for certain if a user is using a hacked client, mod(s), or fancy hardware. And I'm not positive on this, but I can imagine insanely fast block placement to cause lag. So many blocks are "changing" so quickly, that it could be causing strain. I'm guessing the live map might "struggle" or have the ability to struggle with keeping up, too. Building faster doesn't "come" with the fly donation feature, but some of you seem to come off as treating it like it is... Donators donate for things that give them an advantage; that doesn't entitle them to use mods/hacked clients (not quite so much hardware) to gain an even more "unfair advantage." Other than donation features (which are available to everyone, at all times, and never go away, retire, become outdated, etc), we want the gameplay to be fair for everyone. Sorry if I'm coming across as rude/raging, but many users are upset by others building extremely fast; and they don't know why or how. It can cause drama if people were to start spreading rumors that you guys were using hacked clients or special mods they can't find. We try to solve issues that are on the verge of possible "uproars" and drama. I honestly didn't know or even understand what was going, all of this "autouse / speed building" stuff, but lots of people were thinking it was being attained by hacked clients and other highly unfair means.
It will not cause lag unless my macro is set to place a block <0.01ms. (Which isn't possible with a macro) This isn't a hack of any sort, it's a macro. A mouse. What you're saying here is that because I actually put money into my computer I have an unfair advantage over people using a 2002 mac when it's 2012. What difference does it make if people are using a hacked client to achieve this? You just want to eliminate one thing a hacked client can do (which isn't hurting anything) and effectively annihilate an entirely different user-base at the same time? (You can't be sure someone is using a hacked client that's correct, but really a hacked client is not referring to someone who can place blocks fast.) I don't care if people think it's a hacked client let them think that. What matters is I'm not, (the truth) and they can get it too. You can't have a completely balanced game-play and if people CAN do it, that means it's most likely not hurting anyone if it took you guys 6 months to address this... and we are fine. I'm pretty sure we can survive without it. (Don't bring up McMMO here) Here's a fact. Hardware is more accessible then a donation feature... Just wanted to point that out. PS If you don't know how... Well just friggen ask. Dynmap won't be affected by real-time changes unless people are changing 100's of thousands of blocks at any given time. ...I do this all the time... adding and adding onto my post. The world is unfair deal with it. (You could be saying the same for me, I'm just saying if it's like this keep it this way.) Instead of getting rid of people who are teaching others (I taught burns). Teach people. You guys are putting limits on technology which is plain stupid... If you want a free solution A. Get a mod B. Get a free macro program C. Get a looper D. Set your mouse to click 4 times per mouse click (Which is included in all windows systems) Paid solution A. Get an exclusive mod B. Buy an advanced macro program C. Buy a mouse with integrated macro support D. Buy a keyboard with integrated macro support
The dynmap is affected by EVERY block placed. and this is an unfair advantage only those with programs and/or expensive keyboards/mouses can get, meaning 90% of all people can NOT use this, if this was a donator feature no one would mind, but it is not. that is why it is disabled.
Dynmap takes a total of all blocks changed and inserts them into the drawing every what 5 seconds? (I'm quite sure this is how it works.) It's not going to be lagging anything anytime soon. I had a guy explain to me that most real-time claiming programs aren't real-time
I'm pointing out that I've donated a considerable chunk of money to this server because, as a donator, I think I should have at least some input (as well as other donators of course) on what happens on the server. To just make a change and then say f you to someone that has given you 300 dollars isn't very cool, not to say that this is what's happening here. Also, I never said that building faster comes with the flying donator feature, I was simply pointing out that it only works well if you have it. And it can be used for things that a non-flyer could benefit from, such as clicking a trade sign quicker when you are buying in bulk. This kind of ability is available to anyone that seeks it out. Just as say an "inventory tweaks" mod is http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/323 ... 1b-mar-27/ There are many mods that make life easier/more fun in the world of MC that are entirely legal. And I just don't know if I agree that this should be illegal. Also, I'm honestly not very happy that you simply disabled our ability to use it without warning or notification. That doesn't show very much consideration for us. Who are these "many users," because I honestly didn't think many people even knew about it. The only person that I've come into contact with that questioned it was Anokfero, and he knows how it works. From your last paragraph it appears that you are arguing for the decision based on the fear of other users not understanding speed building. I find that having faith in people's ability to understand what they are ignorant of, when given the correct information, usually pays off. I understand that it is much easier for you to just disable it, but as a contributor to this community, in-game and through donation, I please ask for at least reconsideration. As far as lag, I do see that as a possibility. I've watched livemap while using it to see how livemap keeps up, and it does seem to do it fairly well. Anyway, we'd be happy to make some kind of tutorial for people so that no one thinks we are being exclusive or unfair.
Break down of economic impact since people who were doing this seem to miss how it could cause any. Speed building/planting farms --> rent farm out ---> roll in pile of cash. Or if you are using this to speed farm with an enchanted axe, oy vey. Since this was not intentionally killed by andrew but by the anti cheat program he uses I would say its gone, because I don't see him turning off a large part of the servers cheat protection to provide this exploit to people with speed/fly. I don't even want to think about enchanted items that now last forever being combined with speed/fly and thats effect on the economy because I know the conclusion is an ugly reality. My only hope is that people with fly are given it thru a spin off of creative mode flying eventually and not cjb mod which people keep mentioning includes xray if you choose to include that part. Also I think rapid block placement sending out a block/chunk change to 200 players etc would cause lag, seems logical.
this mod - http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/467 ... d-for-125/ this script - http://macro-keybind-mod-scripts.google ... utouse.txt do the obvious steps of mcpatcher and modloader, drop the mod zip in your minecraft mods folder, lauch minecraft, alt-tab back to mods folder, new folder should be created named macros, open macros folder and drop autouse.txt in there, close folder alt-tab back to minecraft then f11, hit esc, go to controls, at the bottom should be macro settings button click it, click a button(m for example), type this into text bar at bottom... $${$$<autouse.txt>}$$ ... close out of macro settings, grab stack of blocks in your hand, get to first block placement, hit m and move backwards fast.... profit, and then hit m to stop. for those wondering how it works, try it in creative mode.
I have an unfair advantage over someone with a crappy computer that get 20 fps in pvp. Are you, then, going to limit my computer? Much more than 10% of users could use this. It is completely accessible without any hardware additions to people's setups.
Have you ever used an eff 5 axe on pumpkins? You can speed 4 through a row with no stutter. The mod doesn't help that in anyway. I think it is rude that you assume we are not willing to talk about economic exploits. As tsmith mentioned, speed planting could be disabled. There are no enchanted items that would help lend to this ability that i can think of. It sounds like this wasn't unintentionally killed by anti-cheat. From Moofink's post it appears that the removal was intentional. Cjb Xray has been disabled. So a user couldn't use it if he wanted to.
I said it was unintentional based on having actually read Andrews post where he didn't seem to be aware any of this existed before it got killed and he does the updates so I am not sure how it could be any more unintentional then that. Also you guys both led off saying how you could not see any way this affected the economy, of course you know it does, and I am not saying you would not admit to that. I think you are just pissed off and need to step back from firing live bullets at any slight disagreement with your assesment of things. This is not about hardware abilities or pvp so why that is being brought in I really don't know. Attacking in all directions will not bring it back or make things be discussed rationally.
BTW We have tested farming pumpkins with an eff5 axe on speed 4 multiple times today, and there are problems. You cannot do a full line without stutter and being stopped by a pumpkin or empty space. I'm not sure if this is due to lag or if it is connected to the disabling of speed building.
I honestly have no idea what speed-building is, nor do I particularly care for it, but here are a few points I'd like to make, as a fly donator. 1) it doesn't exactly give you an advantage in any way, no more so than fly does already 2) "unfair advantages" are the reason people donate for features; I want the "unfair advantage" of being able to fly so I'll pay $60 for it 3) though this removal was unintentional, the anticheat I think ECC uses (as well as all the other ones) have the ability to turn off certain parts of themselves, so re-enabling of this won't affect the server's anticheat in any specific way
Wally I've tried speed farming. Doesn't work unless you break blocks immediately without any time. Fastest time you can break a block is 0.5350 seconds. I pass over blocks at about 3.8 blocks per second.
As I stated wally, I thought, based on Moofinks post, that perhaps it was killed intentionally. I was not aware that Andrew was in charge of all server updates, thank you for the info. Also, I did not lead off by saying it couldn't affect the economy. I feel like you came into this discussion with a bit of an attitude and you continue to do so And you are now accusing me of "firing bullets." Instead of simply maturely stating that you disagree that hardware has something to do with the debate, you say things like which doesn't help keep the conversation rational. You are continuing to imply that the others in the discussion are missing something or are being unintelligent etc, and I think the quotes I chose above highlight that pretty well. Anyway, if this is something killed by anti-cheat, perhaps this is a lost cause.....but if there is any way to save it I would like to explore that possibility. Not to pull any kind of "I swear I'll jump stunt" but not sure if I can play anymore without it.....hahahaha. I'm glad I'm laughing when I type that . But yeah, anti-cheat obviously holds a much higher precedence, and I'm not sure if the developers could or would even want to modify it for this. If it is an easy fix, I'm not sure if they would want to test server lag, but I'd be willing to help test in anyway I can.
deal. but make fly a prerequisite for it, as users that get this feature and don't have fly wouldn't be very happy with it.
