Denied [All Main Servers Suggestion] ECC/Magic Tool tweaks

Interesting.
Lets see where this discussion goes.

 

In the past suggestions have been made that only the owners of magic tools benefit from their magic abilities to prevent renting. These were denied. The counter argument was that it would be easy to transfer the own to the renter, but this really makes no sense, as if the /own is transferred to a renter, that renter can just keep the tool and /own.
+1

 

I am a fan of this suggestion, however not sure on this part

If we were to do something like this, you'd have to make it a universal thing, so go to star tools, or even max tools. Personally there is enough risk in changing the /own over, and if that person doesnt return the tool, well since its not owned to you, you cant claim it back.

 

I support this as long as we're only talking about ECC/Magic tools. I think star tools should still be rentable as they were before. That being said I have no idea what would have to be done on the coding side to only affect certain tools. If this is possible, I think it's a win-win for everyone. Those who have the OP tools can still use them as they usually would, but they can't just rent them out to people using them 8+ hours a day. I know the star tool market has been hurt a ton by the implantation of these OP tools, and I believe this would bring them back at least slightly. Overall, +1 if possible

 

+1 any form of nerf is welcome

 

agreed

 

My only concern with this comes from mine and @MadMonster_ situation where we co-own the ecc tool. It would be unfair on one of us not to be able to repair a tool that we rightfully own.

 

1+

I agree with the suggestion. It will be a good way to nerf the crazy rentals of Magic/ECC Tools, as they won't be as simple as they are now. They will certainly need somebody they trust. I think the suggestion should only apply to Magic/ECC Tools and not Star Tools as their price is already very low and their rental market is dead.

@DCxCyBeR Based on the suggestion, I understand that you will still be able to fix the tool you share with MadMonster. MadMonster will have to change the /own to you when you want to use it and vice versa.

 

-1
Although I agree that something should be done, I'm not a huge fan of this solution. There are two main reasons:

The lesser reason is that this effectively seeks to control the economy by way of breaking tools. I don't think this helps anyone. If someone does break a tool they're $80m in debt. That's simply not debt that anyone is capable of paying without further magic tool rentals which they won't likely be able to secure. This just forces a player to quit. This would be bad enough, but on top that we're effectively saying that "hey, that feature you bought to repair tools with no effort on your part? it doesn't work on the most expensive tool lol".

The bigger reason I don't think this is effective, however, is that it addresses the wrong issue. These tools are too powerful, yes. However, prohibiting rentals only leaves a larger wealth gap between those who have them and those who do not. The wealth gap is a far larger issue than general inflation. If everyone has too much money, it's much easier to adjust an economy. If only a few have too much money, there's very little you can do.

 

The suggestion does not try to control the economy by encouraging to break tools. Simply magic tools wouldn't be rented out to strangers anymore, because owners will either have to repair the tool by themselves each time the renter needs or risk to have it broken, which obviously is not going to happen. This encourages renting magic tools to people you trust.

This does not prohibit rentals, it allows rentals to be safe only with trusted people to which you can transfer /own. It does not leave a larger wealth gap than before. The magic tools that are being rented out right now are more than 10. They are being rented out which means that people can use them at any time. Altogether, they generate tens of millions in a day. On top of that, those who rent them out earn 400k per rental. All this to say that the current situation not only generates an incredible, possibly unbearable, flux of money but it centralizes money even more in the hands of those who own the magic tools and rent them out.

I'm not anglophone. I hope this can still be well understood.

 

-1
This post is a little strange the magic tools are not rented out to strangers they are rented out to trusted individuals in the ECC community. Also why shouldn't I be able to rent out to people? What you guys are wanting is basically make it so no one has access to the magic tools besides maybe a select few? Why should it be that almost no one has access to the tools?

 

^

 

-1 I'm not sure that anyone who has +1 this has really thought this through.

You would further solidify the reality of an elite class that would hold all the power and take away anyone's capability of moving up in class at all.
I'm against this because this would only hurt the normal player who doesn't have millions of ecd already.

This /own thing would in no way effect me negatively and i would continue to operate the way i always have. This just makes it impossible for others to ever succeed while magic tools still exist.

 

I have a couple opinions on this suggestion. But in the end -1

My first one being, I have auto ereps. I paid to be able to essentially mindlessly farm while not paying attention to the durability of my tools. So by habit, I guarantee I’d break one. And I’d bet I’m not the only one.

Secondly, if these tools are going to exist, I don’t see why were reducing who can use them even further. The wealth is being confined to an even smaller number of people, instead of the wealth from the tools being distributed more evenly.

For those reasons, I don’t think this is a good idea.

 

This suggestion aims to make it riskier to rent out magic tools by making them easier to break and/or steal. Which is a poor approach to the issue.

I'm not sure what your basis for this is. You literally state that the point of this is to limit who magic tool owners can safely rent to. The less people who magic tool owners can rent to, the less who have a shot at actually participating in the economy at a major scale.

Rental fees are paid from player to player and aren't cash that is generated. When the issue is "these tools generate too much money", market rental fees are largely irrelevant to the discussion.

This is absolutely incorrect and you don't know what you're talking about. Take a look at these examples.
Example 1: Player A rents his magic rod to Player B for one day for 400k. Assuming Player B uses it for most of the day, he makes 1.5m. Player A gains 400k and Player B gains 1.1m.

Example 2: Player A does not rent his magic rod out and simply does not use it. No money is gained by anyone.

Of course in both examples Player A has much more money, owning the magic rod. However in the first example, Player B's wealth grows more than Player A's, reducing the wealth gap. (This not even counting that technically in example 2, Player A is free to use the rod themself and realize the full 1.5m gain).

 

Honestly Id say if they are really damaging the economy and hurting everyone and everyone hates them then take them out otherwise dont practically had a bunch restrictions preventing you and others using them more

 

but honestly everyone says the economy is damaged but in reality it really isn't we aren't experiencing hyperinflation. We may have gotten hire prices for a few items but besides those items everything is the same. Just people who have access to the magic tools or /own them are in a different playing field. I know a lot of people dislike that I have a lot or that Im p2w but that of course is going to happen when you spend 100k USD on any game no matter how not P2W a server is. The server is not broken or going to not exist in a couple of months. We have had an increase number of builders and newer players. Especially with people like me supporting the server even if there a slump of players. Maybe there are a decrease of old users on the server atm (not sure), but that is also in part that school started up and other things have popped up. People have less time then what they did over the summer. Again though if @andrewkm and his SA team truely believe adding magic tools was a mistake I would be okay with them taking it out. However, in my opinion I do not believe they have it isn't hurting the economy at all its just changing the economy. There are a lot of different ways to measure an economy then just what kinda buying power ECD has now vrs then. Lots of money comes into the economy, but a lot of money comes out as well and the truely wealthy users do not go spending all their ECD into the economy instead just have it sit in a vault so that doesn't damage the economy as much as it could.