First of all, I am not using the format this time. Why? Because this is not a suggestion for ECC's Staff or for Andrew. This suggestion is for the community as a whole. Suggestions: Stop giving hand outs, start giving help. Now, you are probably wondering what I mean by that. Example: "[Tr] Builder: I need 1k" Instead of giving them the money, help them figure out how to make it themselves. Why? You can feed a person or you can teach that person to feed themselves? Which one do you think is more effective? How does this reduce scamming? Well in my opinion, scammers are often times the people who have been given things a lot. These people beg often and eventually, when begging isn't working, they try to find other 'fast money making' ways. Scamming is that way. Maybe you think this is a terrible idea, maybe it isn't. Just consider what I've said. If you give the mouse a cookie, he'll just keep asking for more. If you teach the mouse to make a cookie, he'll go make his own cookies and leave you alone.
I follow the same mind set. I am politically conservative, so I naturally feel this way. I have invested a lot of money in my uprising 600x400 town, and I am building a 200x100x4 and a 200x40x9 farms for all residents of my town. I offer simple tools, like diamond axes, for sale in this town. Also, I purchased a town exclusive portal to the mining world for my new residents to use. I mentioned this in my staff application if any of you want to read more about how I think.
Also, I think that this keeps these new players coming back for more ECC, because they like the challenge of getting money. As long as they keep coming, and they have their eyes set up on getting their own town, they will never leave.
this is generally a good idea. but i find the correlation between the two practices to be somewhat of a stretch. it's a noble idea and effort that might have an effect on the amount and severity of scams. but it will be very negligible if at all sure its a good idea i just dont think it will have much of an impact, short term definitely and long term probably
The only thing I do disagree about is that scams come from giving away money. I have seen a few presidents+ scam some big time money, even though they are so filthy rich. It is easy money for them, and they are willing to take a temporary ban to get it.
Well, the reason I say this as an idea. I have seen many of our 'big scams' being done by players who I noticed have begged for months. Some of which who begged from builder to mayor etc. Suddenly, people stop giving them money because well a mayor+ begging is frowned upon thoroughly. Its almost like getting a Scarlet Letter. That person is shunned, made fun of etc. Those people started as a begging builder and never got out of the habit. On the other hand, the builders who don't beg often times turn out to be good members of the community as the grow in rank. I honestly think there is a correlation. Maybe its not a causation, it would be really hard to test... We could do a long term study I suppose. Pick a hundred builders and watch everything they do lol.
Love that book Now on a more serious note, I've done some research into these scenarios IRL, how people become violent or become criminalistic, and how that can be solved. A lot of the times, people do violent acts because they do not have the proper mental or social support. This is a great idea because it give that kind of support to those who need it, the new users with no means of income or who feel socially unequal. Another thing which I don't think you mentioned Revan is that this could potentially work as a mentoring tool. Often times newer users who experience this kind of financial and social depression just need a helping hand to get them on their feet. For someone to take them under heir wing and raise them up can mean the world to an aspiring player and can put them down the right path. Great idea Revan +1
That is a very good point. Often times juveniles who are going down the wrong path can be steered in the right direction with some help from a 'mentor'.
Could you please define "support". Support could mean answering questions, helping them understand the server more or providing a potential opportunity (ex. a farm and tools). If your definition of "support" is leaning towards the "answering questions/understanding", then I personally think that will get them nowhere. Most new players won't even hang in their for a second if you just keep bustling information towards them but no actual "way". There are exceptions but those are rare. On the other hand, if you provide a potential opportunity, you are simply counter-acting your suggestion as once you get richer, you won't be given a free farm or tools or any assistance. So my suggestion is based on personal experience. I believe in "throw them in a battlefield and let the strongest live". You may guide them to the wiki, tutorials or even answering basic questions. But you are not to provide any "clear defined" money making machine. The one's that are dedicated will search the resources they are provided and find a path to success. This was how I was taught. I didn't get any "builder foundations" when I joined. Neither did I find anyone that reached out to me. I got about 1/5 of my questions answered. But I still reached success. Members who go through this process will truly learn the value of money, saving and will not risk their money on useless things. They will not become suddenly depressed upon loss of money and therefore won't scam. Your welcome to argue against the suggestion but I believe the "live or die" approach is the most efficient to creating a strong community. It sounds harsh but it's reality. I know ECC focuses on creating an environment where all are accepted but if we want to achieve a "near perfect" community, I believe this is the best solution. The only downside I find is that we may lose potential players. The question I'll leave you with is "More players vs Better players?" or "Quantity vs Quality?".
No my thought isn't 'give them an opportunity.' My thought is... well for example this is what I would do and have done countless times: [G] Builder: Gibe me money pl0x [G] Revan: Hey, I have an idea for how you could make money easier. If you do /kit starter you can go mining in the mining world. If you want I can show you how to get there. Take them to the mining world and then say: [G] Revan: By the way, if have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me by doing /pm Revanrose. You should also read /help money. I know it sounds so simplistic. I know it sounds ridiculous that I even have to be discussing it. The fact though is, we as a community have started ignoring builders, especially the ones who are floundering. Many times res+'s give the builders asking for money, money to shut them up. Instead they should help them learn better ways to make money. Maybe teach them how to make a good farm. Show them an example farm. Link them to articles on that type of thing. We have a builders starter guide. We have a guide on how to trade properly. We have a guide on how to make a proper wheat farm. How often do we give those to builders?
Also, on the tangent of what I was just stating I think I will be making a comprehensive builder starting guide to be posted on the forum and on the wiki.
The times that builders are provided with these resources (which I agree are rare), they often fail to proceed. I've seen quite a few /help [page] responses in chat, yet that doesn't seem to yield any results. I'm quite sure I've directed a couple of builders to the mining world (3/5 of them can't follow through with my directions). But yet, they still beg and don't understand the "Hardcore" aspect of our server. If we truly are "The Hardcore Economy Server", we shouldn't have to provide so much assistance including holding their hand and taking them "step by step" to the mining world, helping them get a pickaxe, etc. When I think "Hardcore", I think of "enough information to start" which we have easily provided. Plus, who would be doing all this? I understand the staff team could assist and a very limited amount of players who participate but is that enough to cover our continuous new player flow? I highly doubt that a normal player would explain to them basics of the whole server, link them to pages, bring them to the mining world, help get a plot, etc. All in all, I think your intentions are good and that everything sounds good but the problem is, it won't work for 99% of the builders. Only 10% or less would be given that opportunity to be walked step by step another user. 5% of them wouldn't even follow through. And 4% of them would expect someone to be there for them forever.
I recognize that I can't expect every player to try and do that. I do however think I should make a comprehensive guide. Basically, everything a builder needs to know explained. That would honestly solve the problem. All you would need is one link. And that one link could be easily given out to builders. Tiny url it and pass it out like a freshman orientation flyer... if you get what I mean.
Awesome . I think I will begin on it asap. Maybe we can bring the new year in with a lovely new thread.
The "live or die" approach doesn't work for anyone... Especially as you go younger into ages. I know for a fact that it doesn't work for me. I would have quit immediately - and I am very thorough and willing to look at my resources and find out how to do things. Fact is, though, for some people, it is not easy - or still hard to understand. Everyone has different personalities, personality traits; look to biopsychology. People learn differently based on a lot of factors, and I haven't even went over environmental factors. For example, what if the resources are badly done? Throw them in "live or die" all you want, but most would die if the resources are not helpful. As well, if the environment (resources, in this case) are un-intuitive, hard to navigate, and/or written with poor or amazing GUM, then understanding them will be difficult. Imagine if you were a young kid - like many of our users are nowadays - even understanding plain, decent English could be difficult. This is not even including all the foreigners we have, who may not understand their sources fully and need active helping, even for "difficult" or "complex" questions and concepts. So, having someone help you actively, understand your confusion, and figure out how to better explain is very important, and more beneficial. (Like Finland's school system... Best school system in the world, and they are all about one-on-one with their students. The crappy school systems in the world? Just throwing information at you.) This also creates ties (especially if you are a Staff member), and shows that you (again, especially if a Staff member) actually care about a person and the community, and aren't throwing them to death or possible frustration. Community is key - shoving someone away makes the community or person seem like they really do not care. It is not warm or welcoming. On your question of, "More players vs Better players" or "Quantity vs Quality", I would have to say I'd rather have quantity and better players. "Live or die" will end up "causing" far fewer players, and only mediocre quality/better players. Even with ECC's decent resources, I am constantly seeing users confused by them, or losing interest quickly due to our sheer size of resources. If you can get the same information quick from talking with people, rather than hours reading our resources, while being social, making ties and connections, friendships, learning about people, and working actively all at the same time... You get more and better people. Throwing people to resources and only minimally talking to them and helping them is less productive on many levels, and generally will cause frustration and confusion for the types of users our server has. However, "live or die" would work better in PVP and Mini-Games servers, simply due to their huge variety in subjects and genres. EDIT: I kind of...rambled. A bit. lol
