Voice. [ADMIN: All EcoCityCraft members read and reply!]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by welikeike22, Jun 7, 2011.

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  1. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    As one of the longest running members on this server, time to time I am taken aback by things, time to time I am impressed, and time to time I am honestly disappointed. I usually keep my opinions quiet, fearful of persecution or yelling by other people because often times my opinions may simply vary from the opinions of people as a whole, or perhaps these opinions many people may find stupid. Finally, I’ve been forced to voice my opinion on something. I understand I may receive hatred for this, I may be harassed, ect, but I am under the impression that as a member of this server, I have a right to voice my opinion. I am cashing this proverbial check today. Andrew gave me Permission to write this, so please, do not lock it, do not move it, and do not delete it.

    The Nation of Undertown. Perhaps the most popular town on the Server, with four different portions of the place itself, and much more room to grow. Almost a month ago, I had the idea of making an underground city, deep underground where people could live. I soon found out, that another member of our server, Kojigaki. We as two people got along very well at the start, I was under no impression that what would happen some time in the future would happen.

    We spent many weeks working together, with members such as Chuggz and even, later on, a Member named BigDaddyD. While him and I had our differences, we generally got along, often times laughing on Ventrillo when we almost made Axa urinate himself because of the jokes we told, or the accents we impersonated. I had, though, in the back of my mind, the suspicion that time and time again, before our nation was official, doubts. He had, many times, practically demanded that he be mayor, the few times I asked if I could be mayor, he voice fully put this down. I eventually went along with it, under the impression that I would be held, as an equal to him, in the future.

    I soon found out that wasn’t true. Only a few days later, our fellow member BigDaddyD, was chosen as Co-mayor above me. While I do not complain, I do voice my opinion that the way he chose the first co-mayor, instead of choosing the person who helped him the most, but instead “picking a number” that was closest to the one he had in his head, I find to be a bit up to skepticism. I, at the time, did not voice my opinion very loudly, though I did voice my discontent that he would chose someone who joined the town later on instead of myself, who in fact helped pick out the place for the town, helped to construct the stairs, and helped to cordon off the place for Undertown original location, so that Andy could use his Magic Wand to World-Edit the 100x100x15 blocks away.

    Things between myself and him, he as mayor, began to turn downhill rather quickly. Often enough, he would find it funny to “play pranks on me” by removing my building rights in the town, to see If I would get upset. Naturally, often enough, I did get upset. I found it to be a serious matter, while he did not. I was upset, often enough he would cause the town to literally lose money because he would go off and play another game without giving me building rights back, or not even giving me the Position of Co-Mayor back, so that I could no longer add people to the region. Some suggested I simply take their money and tell them to wait for Koji to add them, but I am not the kind of person who does that.

    Most Recently, I was startled by several facts. As you all know, Upper-Undertown purchased a Arena for Ten Thousand Dollars. I, he, and BigDaddyD all pitched in money towards it, big daddy and I each pitched in 3,000 dollars, while he pitched in the remaining balance, four thousand dollars. This was fair, and I do not have a problem with it. The problem I do have, though, is the fact of the matter he came very close to driving himself, and our town, into debt, when he went off and spent the money we had allocated for this purchase. We are lucky that Hellome did not call us on the money we owed while he did not have the money to pay, or we would be in very, very deep trouble. I am not one who likes to see people being cheated out of their money, though I can be viewed as “cheap” when it comes to things such as purchasing items. 75$ for a Diamond is fair to me, though to others, 85, and even $90 is the fairest choice.

    Most recently, In fact, today even. I had never even known that Koji did not like me, I was under the impression we had a healthy friendship, even. I was busily working, collecting the mushrooms from my farm, when the red message “You do not have permission for this area” Came up. I thought it was just another one of his jokes, and I was annoyed, numerous times asking for him to give me my building rights back. Then, that’s when the real trouble started. He informed me that “Myself and BigDaddyD have come to the consensus that you have broken Rule Eight of the Town Rules”. Rule eight states that one is not allowed to extend out of his area without the permission of the mayor, or two co-mayors.

    I was under the impression that this regarded only to personal plots purchased by people who wished to join the town. I was not under the impression that this equated to Co-Mayors, who wished to create more parts of their town to continue the growth of the city. I had done it many times before, without speaking much to him about it, and he never once complained, or said I was not allowed to do it. While once in a blue moon, he would voice his discontent on how something was moving along, or how something looked, he never once told me “Oh, you aren’t allowed to do that.” Or even “I don’t want you to do that”.

    Something that bothered me the most, was when I spoke to BigDaddyD, he stated that he “Hasn’t spoken to Koji about anything besides the new farm we’re making”. Mind you all, BigDaddyD just returned from an almost two week vacation. Therefore, while Koji has the power as Leader of the town, he stated that it would be somewhat like a Democracy, with Two co-mayors able to out-vote the main Mayor. This is clearly not true. While one can state that they are a democracy, or a republic, they have to prove it. One can not simply lie and say they had that consensus, when they did not. I was even informed by one, Heavensfallen, that the night prior to today, Koji stated that he was looking for a replacement for me, because I was “Annoying Him”.

    The fact of the matter is, I am not bothered by this as much. I am deeply disappointed in myself for trusting someone who I should have never trusted in the first place. Someone as shady as this person, Kojigaki.

    What does matter to me, what does bother me, is the topic of my portal. While he is the Mayor of Undertown, I was never under the influence or belief that by allowing the usage of my rightfully earned portal, I would be giving any and all rights of ownership up to it to Koji. If this was true, I would have demanded to be mayor, to protect my assets, instead of simply giving him the most valuable thing I ever owned. Andrew has informed me that Koji is refusing to let go of my portal, the property that, while I owned it, apparently now “belongs” to him because I allowed I to be used for Undertown. I was never under the belief that I would be kicked out on his whim, because if I believed this, I know I would of never given the portal up. The most valuable thing I owned is now being held hostage, along with the properties I purchased. While I have taken out my items, I will probably never see the Portal, worth a whopping sixty thousand dollars which KojiGaki would have had to worry about getting had I not allowed it to be used for Undertown, again.

    I have taken my items, though often enough yelled at or scolded for taking too long, many times my rights as a simple member of Undertown being taken away. After all of the work I had done for the town, I have been removed, unofficially being banned from the town, the labor of my love for many, many weeks. I have now been forced to pack my bags, and start brand new, in a new town. With the Portal that is rightfully mine being held hostage, I have almost nothing to my name, aside from a few thousand dollars which I am more than willing to give to the members of the city I have joined to assist them in making their city official. I hope this new city will be nothing like Undertown, and the one thing I do hope that it is severely missing, that Undertown seemed to have an abundance of, is corruption.

    I urge you all to voice your opinions, as I have. I have said what I needed to say, and the fact of the matter is, I am done with Undertown. I have been crossed so much in a short period of time I have no interest in ever returning, unless I was offered a fantastic amount. I request, perhaps two things, though they are both probably far gone stretches. An apology, for being led on to the fact that I would be held as an equal and someone you would not use and then throw away when you were done with, and my portal returned to me. I know I will most likely not receive the apology I believe I rightfully deserve, and I know I will probably not receive my portal back, because of things I have outlined. It would prove something about your character, and perhaps even change my opinions, if you did return the portal to my ownership, so that I could hold it and then move it at a later date, to a town which I feel my opinion matters, and I feel like I will not be stabbed in the back by, but I doubt that would ever happen.

    I do, though, have one demand. As per international copyright laws, the following topic's entire contents(http://www.ecocitycraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1383) is my Intellectual property. This content I created on my own, and According to the DMCA, I can ask for it to be taken down at any time. I want it taken down. . While I have replied to this topic many a time, my replies always seem to “disappear”, as did the main topic itself, which I created, noticing today that it was gone, and the exact post was copied and pasted into his own post.

    I advise you all, while Undertown is beautifully constructed, 2/4ths or more by me, mind you, that its appearance does not display what it truly is on the inside. The governments head does what he wishes. He has the right to hold up server rule Three, that mayors are the Leaders of the town, but having a right does not mean that you should use that to the point where you have become corrupt.

    I leave this topic with a quote.

    “Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.” – Pope John Paul II.
     
  2. Mission001

    Mission001 Ex-EcoLegend HⱻặĐHůƞẗǝɍ
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    Re: Voice.

    I was under the impression you donated you portal for the good of the town?


    I dont give £5 a year to children in need and then when i leave the uk, expect them to give me back my £5


    I understand that your obviously annoyed and i would be too if i was in your position, but you kinda went in on undertown together for better or worse, sounds like you just got screwed over although you had the best intentions of the town.
     
  3. Michaelwm

    Michaelwm Builder
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    Here is my opinion. I know, that in the "Undertown Portal App" You have given your portal to Koji. Now, although it is under his possesion, I still belive it be returned to you. After this, after what they did to a person that helped more than 50% to the town, I belive the portal rights be returned to you. SImply because YOU earned it, and used it to you purposes. Now, you want to use it for something else. You take it back, and change its purpose.

    In summary, I belive the portal rights be transfered to you.

    Edit #2:
    Me and mission were speaking. He said because he donated 50% of Soulwoods portal, he should be able to recive 50%. This helps with your case, as Koji doesnt have the right to keep it. He payed 0% for that portal. If this was a case with soulwood and mission wanted 50%, he has the right to take 50%. Koji payed 0%, Koji can recive 0%.
     
  4. jbowon

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    Re: Voice.

    From the information I was given In this post along with what I have gathered on In-game chat and Ventrilo I believe that under present circumstances this situation comes down to "I let you use it but Since you were a arse to me I want it back" While bluntly put I can simply state no official records consist of transfer of rights of the portal and the only official documentation consist that he won the portal in a competition. Meaning from what can be confirmed he is still in possession of said portal and has the right to move it wherever he pleases as long as he is given permission. I believe if this were put in actual court by United states standards he still has rights over his property since no documentation exist to prove him wrong. I am not here to discuss opinions just what can be considered a legal standpoint on the situation.

    Portal App
    I don't have the 60k needed for a portal in my balance, but I have been given permission to use a portal given to me by welikeike from the previous server, and the co-ordinates for the portal are.... x:-171.7, y:9.62

    I am sorry as I did not see this post on the forums but it can be said that this is a contradicting statement therefore its eligibility is null
     
  5. Larsphee

    Larsphee Builder
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    What about all the ppl with properties they bought in the undertown areas? I doubt they would've payed 1-4k or more for lots there if there was a * with small text (*oh btw, this towns portal might be removed to another city at some point)! Not saying Ike dont have plenty of good arguments, just... if possible, theres gotta be a way to solve this so no one will take "the big hit".
     
  6. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    1-2 K. In addition, Simple because the portal is being moved, does not mean that they will no longer go to the town. Are there not three or more towns who do not have Portals, but still have many members?

    Edit:

    "I have been given permission to use a portal given to me by welikeike from the previous server, and the co-ordinates for the portal are.... x:-171.7, y:9.62"

    I gave him permission to use it, i never once said "Hey Koji, take this Portal! I don't need it". I never once relinquished my rights as rightful owner to it.
     
  7. Mission001

    Mission001 Ex-EcoLegend HⱻặĐHůƞẗǝɍ
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    This doesnt mean imma take my 50% because i think once you have donated something or given it for someone to use, then i think thats it,

    Its open to opinion, depends how you are a s a person, some people will let it go, its just a portal, being its just a game
    Some people will take it quite personally like ike has, being he feels likes its his pride and joy...
     
  8. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    I never once stated, in the past, that i was giving my rights to the portal, which is 100% mine, to Koji. I stated that i was going to let it be used for the town. While i did not say that i would take it should i leave the town, i did not state that he could keep the portal should i leave. No one could have foreseen this situation occurring a month ago.

    Its not really me saying its my pride and joy, more than the fact i feel as if i had been used for the purposes of my portal, my money, and my labor.
     
  9. Starbolt79

    Starbolt79 Guest

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    I love how he takes pride and joy in something that took no effort to acquire...

    Since it was a contest... And he noticed that there was a dirt patch, and dug all the way down to the chest...

    You can't really make an informed decision without hearing both sides to the story...
     
  10. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    "Its not really me saying its my pride and joy, more than the fact i feel as if i had been used for the purposes of my portal, my money, and my labor."
     
  11. Mission001

    Mission001 Ex-EcoLegend HⱻặĐHůƞẗǝɍ
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    You said you never stated that you had given him your rights to your portal.


    But you never said anything that you were not giving your portal to him.

    Technically you just said 'yes' when you replied to the topic xD

    So yo didnt say whether you did or didnt give him rights to it.
     
  12. Michaelwm

    Michaelwm Builder
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    He still Earned the portal. He won, he earned a prize. The prize rigths became his, and that prize was a portal.
     
  13. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    His statement, in the topic in question, Contraticted itself.
    "I was given permission to use a portal given to me by welikeike22". I never once gave him the portal itself, unless he is speaking of the permission to use it. I fully admit that i gave him permission to use the portal for the town, because i was under the belief that i would be a member of the town. I never once gave the portal itself to him.
     
  14. Mission001

    Mission001 Ex-EcoLegend HⱻặĐHůƞẗǝɍ
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    You didnt say anything about it though in your reply,
    So technically you are just as to blame xD

    Im not saying you shouldnt get it back, but i think people need to think more carefully before you just throw stuff into the mix without thinking it through and making sure you have guidelines in place if you wanna bail out.
     
  15. Michaelwm

    Michaelwm Builder
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    Its his portal. He never gave away the rights. He owns the portal, he just let undertown use it. Your pencil breaks. I give you my pencil. You use it, but its still my pencil

    P.S. This is becoming like the server status thread o.o
     
  16. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    @ Mission

    I agree. At that moment in time, and for some time, i was never under the belief that i would go through something like this, that is probably why i simply replied "Yes", though at the same time i had been pressured by him to reply to the topic so that Andy would accept it, moreover in the rush for us to complete the town and make it the first town on the server(We all know how that went. Mike beat us :p).


    In addition, if i do recieve my portal back, i'm not going to demand it back now. At this moment in time, i do not need it, because i do not have a town, so i will allow it to be used for undertown should i be chosen as the winner in this debate. Once i do need it, though, if i do win this argument, i will want it for the new town i am a member of.
     
  17. Michaelwm

    Michaelwm Builder
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    and that is...
     
  18. Starbolt79

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    In this sense, the only way to have a portal, is for the mayor to 'own it' by having the 60k in your balance, and nobody elses... So the only way that the Undertown portal was placed was that it was in Koji's possession.... And you did agree with it by saying 'Yes'...
     
  19. welikeike22

    welikeike22 Dean Martin
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    What of this..?

    @ Star

    The note of those rules did not take into account the Portal which i had in my account. There was never anything written on the note of a Portal in your possession, won through a contest.
     
  20. Starbolt79

    Starbolt79 Guest

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    What about it? Isn't that thread already gone? o.o
     
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